The "problem" of evil

Quote: rxwine

Why don't you answer why it was necessary for a Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. You think Adam & Eve needed it there to be content?

Please say yes so I can have a big LOL at the foolishness of your fable.

The full name of that tree you are referencing is "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". Yes, God had to allow human beings in freedom to either trust in God and the objective nature of what is good and evil or rebel and decide that they would know what is best and make up for themselves what was good and evil according to their own desires and wants.

I don't know if they needed this option to be content, but they did need this option to be free. While we are both laughing can you please say that you would rather not have had the freedom to make up for yourself what is good or evil?

Quote: FrGamble

Another grossly unfair and insulting post. I guess you could just as easily be one of those guys killing people in the millions like Stalin. Just refer to your own self and your own interests to guide you and give you directions, all other people and those you don't like be damned.

You're actually right. One can end up being Stalin. This is not a reason to not think for oneself, because being Stalin is likely a condition like a sociopath.

BTW, The below post wasn't insulting, it's what you do.

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FrGamble only uses his critical thinking skills until they interfere with his book/religion. Then discards them.

He could just as easily be one of those guys lopping off heads in Isis. Refer to the book, or holy leader for directions.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know if they needed this option to be content, but they did need this option to be free.

Exactly how many options can you have without self-destruction being one of them? Innumerable.

How many foods could God create for you to have without eating poison? Innumerable.

How many kinds of paths could God give you to take without being destroyed? Innumerable.

The answer is innumerable in all cases.

Quote: rxwine

BTW, The below post wasn't insulting, it's what you do.

Can you cite then an example of when my critical thinking skills give way to adherence to the Bible or my religion? Can you state why you think I could easily start lopping people's heads off?

Quote: FrGamble

Can you cite then an example of when my critical thinking skills give way to adherence to the Bible or my religion?

Yes. All you have to find is where you answer, in effect "God says" in response to why something happens and for what reason.

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Can you state why you think I could easily start lopping people's heads off?

I'll let you figure out why an addict of one drug is susceptible to others for the same reasons.

Quote: FrGamble

And I think we determined that the big difference in Heaven is the presence of the evil one to tempt us is not present.

Right, and God has chosen to let the evil one tempt us here, and allow pain and suffering and evil, rather than just having us exist in a place like heaven in the first place.

I pointed out the contradiction before, that the ability to perform evil acts is necessary because we have free will vs the inability to perform evil acts due to a lack of desire because of being in the presence of the Lord, yet our free will is preserved.

The conclusion arrived at by logic is that the ability to perform evil acts is not necessary in order for us to have free will.

Quote: rxwine

Yes. All you have to find is where you answer, in effect "God says" in response to why something happens and for what reason.

What God says is not a failure of critical thinking unless you don't look at the reasons why God says. Maybe you could cite an example where what "God says" is not logical or reasonable?

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I'll let you figure out why an addict of one drug is susceptible to others for the same reasons.

So to you Christianity is a gateway drug that leads to lopping people's heads off?!?

Quote: Dalex64

I pointed out the contradiction before, that the ability to perform evil acts is necessary because we have free will vs the inability to perform evil acts due to a lack of desire because of being in the presence of the Lord, yet our free will is preserved.

The conclusion arrived at by logic is that the ability to perform evil acts is not necessary in order for us to have free will.

I think your logic is faulty. If you have true freedom then you need to be able to chose evil acts. You don't have to chose such acts in fact I think we would all agree that we would not want to chose such actions that hurt ourselves and others. Yet we still chose such actions, why? The answer is found in Original Sin and the presence of the tempter. In Heaven we are free from Original Sin and there is no tempter so we are free to chose what we would all want to chose, namely the good all the time.

If god wasn't really demented and cruel, why did he not give a mental demonstration of what Adam & Eve would face if they disobeyed him?

In other words, a dream, a short film in their heads of what awaited.

Why not do that, leave their free will intact, then let them decide?

You tell me why this would be a bad idea? If you give a decent answer I'll take back my opinion that you could start lopping off heads any second now.

Quote: FrGamble

I think your logic is faulty. If you have true freedom then you need to be able to chose evil acts. You don't have to chose such acts in fact I think we would all agree that we would not want to chose such actions that hurt ourselves and others. Yet we still chose such actions, why? The answer is found in Original Sin and the presence of the tempter. In Heaven we are free from Original Sin and there is no tempter so we are free to chose what we would all want to chose, namely the good all the time.

So again, God had the ability to create an environment like heaven for us to live in, with freedom but no temptation, but chose not to do so. Why?

Instead, he put two people into a paradise without sin, but with a source of temptation, knowing that they would choose to succumb to it. Why?

Clearly we do not need original sin in order to have the freedom to choose the wrong thing. Eve was free from original sin and chose to do the wrong thing.

As for original sin, again, does the punishment fit the crime? Is it just and good to have all of us suffer the consequences of one person, of one action, when only given the verbal instruction "don't do this," not explain the consequences, and then allow the presence of temptation to work on her and tell her "do this, it's good." ?

How is that fair and just? Why does God punish all of us for our entire mortal existence forever for the single act of one person?