Challenge to FrGamble

Quote: pew

By definition naturalism/atheism says the random chance of a miracle is 0 so there is no chance, minuscule or otherwise. I think that may have been F.R.s point.

I took it to mean that he's saying the chance of a cure happening randomly is so remote that the only explaination is a divine miracle. I have heard the argument used to explain why evolution can not possibly be what really happened. Totally goes against any basic understanding of probability.

There is usually a small percentage of people who recover from otherwise deadly diseases, sometimes not even knowing they have them.

Read about the miracle of Mary Mallon - scientifically documented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

Quote: Aussie

I took it to mean that he's saying the chance of a cure happening randomly is so remote that the only explaination is a divine miracle.

Calling anything a miracle is the fly in
the ointment. If you have a list of
reasons for why something happened,
miracle should never be on the list.
Of course, for 'believers', it's right near
the top. I've found that miracle people
have little or no understanding of how
random chance works. Nor do they want
to, it doesn't fit their model for the world.

FrG seems to think it's a miracle that when
you visit Lourdes, the atmosphere there is
loving and spiritual. Nothing mysterious
about it. Everybody who goes there has
pre programmed themselves to have a
loving, spiritual experience and so they
do. The same thing happens at yoga retreats.
You meet the nicest, smartest people and
and have a wonderful peaceful time. We
go there with that intention in mind.

Quote: Aussie

I took it to mean that he's saying the chance of a cure happening randomly is so remote that the only explaination is a divine miracle. I have heard the argument used to explain why evolution can not possibly be what really happened. Totally goes against any basic understanding of probability.

But when the probability is zero...

Quote: FrGamble

if you pray in the midst of your cancer or for someone else who has cancer to experience the love of God then Jesus guarantees that this prayer will be answered. This experience of Divine Love and Mercy is what we all truly seek and what truly we should be praying for.

So you prove that prayer works and your deities are not imaginary, by saying that a prayer for a subjective experience for some else will surely be answered.

"Isn't that special?"

Quote: pew

But when the probability is zero...

Who are you to say the probability of such things is zero? Science has proven things over and over again that in the past would have simply been put down to a miracle or some other God-botherer explanation. Your concept of "zero" is exactly the type of thinking I was talking about.

Quote: Aussie

Who are you to say the probability of such things is zero? Science has proven things over and over again that in the past would have simply been put down to a miracle or some other God-botherer explanation. Your concept of "zero" is exactly the type of thinking I was talking about.

I think you're wrong to say there is no event that has a zero percent chance of happening. What are the odds that a man who has been laying dead in a tomb for three days gets up and walks away? How about changing water into wine in an instant?

Quote: pew

What are the odds that a man who has been laying dead in a tomb for three days gets up and walks away?

What are the chances he was misdiagnosed?

Not as high as that the whole story was made up. But higher than a resurrection.

Quote:

How about changing water into wine in an instant?

Magic trick.

Quote: Nareed

What are the chances he was misdiagnosed?

Not as high as that the whole story was made up. But higher than a resurrection.



Magic trick.

Your missing the point. What are the odds? Are they or are they not zero? Simple question.

Quote: Nareed

What are the chances he was misdiagnosed?
Not as high as that the whole story was made up. But higher than a resurrection.

The real question is, what are the odds
of believing a story that has no corroboration
outside of the NT. What are the odds of
believing a story that shows up again and
again in the myths of the era. It's not a
matter of what are the odds that it happened,
it's what are the odds that the story
is complete bullshite. Nearly 100%, in case
you're wondering.

If you believe the resurrection story about
Jesus, you're compelled to believe the other
stories that came before him. A few dozen
at least, here are the 10 most famous. Get
in line, Jesus, your story isn't even all that
colorful. Resurrection was common in those
days, in myths anyway.

http://listverse.com/2013/03/30/10-resurrected-religious-figures/