Challenge to FrGamble

Quote: pew

Your missing the point. What are the odds?

And Jesus wasn't even 'dead' all that
long. Fri afternoon to Sunday morning
is not 3 days, it's more like 36 hours.

Before the invention of embalming,
it wasn't uncommon for someone
pronounced dead to come back
alive at their own funeral. He was
in a deep coma, and revived a few
days later. Is that a resurrection?
Jesus wasn't even pronounced dead,
he was assumed dead. That is, if
any of it really happened the way it
was written, which I highly doubt.

Quote: pew

Your missing the point.

I am addressing the relevant point.

You are missing an apostrophe and a vowel ;)

Quote: pew

I think you're wrong to say there is no event that has a zero percent chance of happening. What are the odds that a man who has been laying dead in a tomb for three days gets up and walks away? How about changing water into wine in an instant?

Changing water into wine? Raising from the dead? We're talking about events that actually occurred not fantasy stories. How about we stick the real world?

So you can't say the odds are zero. That's interesting. I'll educate you, the odds are zero and there are many other things that have zero odds of happening, like rolling a thirteen with a pair of fair dice.

Unless of course you're L.A. Money or whatever his handle was. It came right after the seventeen yo's.

Quote: Aussie

Changing water into wine? Raising from the dead? We're talking about events that actually occurred not fantasy stories. How about we stick the real world?

We are talking about the real world. Not only did these things happen but we still feel their effects today.

Quote: pew

So you can't say the odds are zero. That's interesting. I'll educate you, the odds are zero and there are many other things that have zero odds of happening, like rolling a thirteen with a pair of fair dice.

You don't seem to be following too well here do you? We're talking about events that have occurred and their relative chance of happening. Not some rubbish about someone being resurrected. Your example of rolling a 13 which is obviously impossible and has never occurred has no relevance to the discussion. Do try and keep up please.

Quote: Evenbob

Before the invention of embalming,
it wasn't uncommon for someone
pronounced dead to come back
alive at their own funeral. He was
in a deep coma, and revived a few
days later. Is that a resurrection?
Jesus wasn't even pronounced dead,
he was assumed dead. That is, if
any of it really happened the way it
was written, which I highly doubt.

Come on, that is ridiculous. The man was beaten to an inch of His life before the crucifixion and then He was nailed to a cross in a way that the Romans, who were pretty good at this stuff, had invited precisely to torture and kill someone. Then His side was pierced with a lance so that the Roman soldiers, who again were experts at this, knew that He was dead.

Also think for a moment exactly how excited the Apostles and Disciples would be if a half dead Jesus limped into the Upper Room barely able to speak. I doubt that this sight would inspire the world shaking momentum that we see in all the disciples who streamed out of the Upper Room boldly proclaiming the Resurrection of Jesus as proof that He was truly God. In the face of persecution and hardships and martyrdom their enthusiasm for the faith did not wane at all but only increased, how would this be possible if they only saw a shell of a beaten and bloodied man on his last legs?

One more thing, these previous myths you keep bringing up. Please take a look again at how radically different they are from the Resurrection accounts of Jesus. They are good examples of myths that are obviously fantasy and had no lasting impact on the world. It also is not a uncommon desire in us as human beings to long for life after death and the hope that death can be defeated. It makes sense that we dreamed up stories of the Resurrection long before it actually happened.

Quote: FrGamble

Come on, that is ridiculous. The man was beaten to an inch of His life before the crucifixion and then He was nailed to a cross in a way that the Romans, who were pretty good at this stuff, had invited precisely to torture and kill someone. Then His side was pierced with a lance so that the Roman soldiers, who again were experts at this, knew that He was dead.

I agree it's ridiculous.

By the rules of the myth, this guy Jesus is both man and god. That means we can't possibly expect him to react physiologically to stimuli the same way a human being would. It would be like expecting a bullet to hurt Superman, under the rules of the Superman myth.

If we see similar constructs, like Heracles or Achilles, we wouldn't expect Jesus to die at all. Making up a story that he resurrected is completely ridiculous.

Quote:

One more thing, these previous myths you keep bringing up. Please take a look again at how radically different they are from the Resurrection accounts of Jesus. They are good examples of myths that are obviously fantasy and had no lasting impact on the world.

Oh, I'd say they had such a lasting impact on the world, that your faith had to appropriate them just to keep up.

Quote: Nareed

Oh, I'd say they had such a lasting impact on the world, that your faith had to appropriate them just to keep up.

That's exactly right, and the virgin birth.
Both appear in myth after myth, they
had to be included in the Jesus myth
if the pagans of the time were to pay
any attention to it. There's not one thing
in Christianity that's original, that hadn't
been used in a past myth.