The Holy Trinity

Quote: Wizard

Until there is, I'll just live my life and let the mystery be.

Exactly. You trust that it's all as
it should be without adding
your opinion to it. That's how
I feel about god. I see no evidence
for a god, or of a god, why would
I go looking for any.

God people do it backwards. They
assume there is a god, hope there's
one, so they take things that are
not evidence and pretend it is proof
pointing at a god. It's just filling
in the blank spots on a myth they
invented.

Quote: aceofspades

You cannot make a claim that something exists without proof thereof --

yet, you attempt to reverse the roles and ask atheists to prove that "God" does not exist -- ]

epistemology (n.) "theory of knowledge," 1856, coined by Scottish philosopher James F. Ferrier

Your first assertion is that "an assertion or statement that cannot be disconfirmed (shown to be false) does not qualify as scientific." But religion does not work by scientific rules.

The second assertion which you subscribe to the Father, is fundamentally impossible. You cannot prove a negative.

doyble

Quote: Pacomartin

epistemology (n.) "theory of knowledge," 1856, coined by Scottish philosopher James F. Ferrier

Your first assertion is that "an assertion or statement that cannot be disconfirmed (shown to be false) does not qualify as scientific." But religion does not work by scientific rules.

The second assertion which you subscribe to the Father, is fundamentally impossible. You cannot prove a negative.

Yup - but when I made the claim that an invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur lived in my backyard - the Padre asked for proof

Quote: Pacomartin

You cannot prove a negative.

Nope. That's why I always say I don't
collect stamps, but there is no way I
can prove I don't collect them. This
makes FrG mad every time I say it,
I don't know why. Go ahead, prove
I collect stamps, the way you
always tell me to prove there is no
god. Can't be done.

FrG asked for a truce. I'd like to hoist the following statement up the flagpole in the hopes that reasonable people on both sides can agree:

Quote: Statement of Truce

The existence of god can neither be proven nor disproven.

By "god" I mean some kind of sentient higher power. My understanding of FrG's basic argument is our very existence proves some kind of causative agent, which he would label god. However, I would say the laws of quantum physics allow for spontaneous creation of matter and I'm sure we are still only scratching the surface about understanding the biggest of questions in science.

There will be plenty of details to fight over, but if we could just get past this one issue it could put to rest what has been going nowhere for thousands of posts.

Quote: Wizard

FrG asked for a truce. I'd like to hoist the following statement up the flagpole in the hopes that reasonable people on both sides can agree:

Quote: Statement of Truce

The existence of god and invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaurs that live in my backyard can neither be proven nor disproven.

By "god" I mean some kind of sentient higher power. My understanding of FrG's basic argument is our very existence proves some kind of causative agent, which he would label god. However, I would say the laws of quantum physics allow for spontaneous creation of matter and I'm sure we are still only scratching the surface about understanding the biggest of questions in science.

There will be plenty of details to fight over, but if we could just get past this one issue it could put to rest what has been going nowhere for thousands of posts.

FTFY

Quote: Statement of Truce

The existence of either god or an invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur that lives in my backyard can neither be proven nor disproven.

However, anyone can say anything can neither be proven or disproven when starting from a made up premise

Quote: Wizard

what has been going nowhere for thousands of posts.

It's not going nowhere. I get PM's
from people who say have learned
a lot from my talks with FrG. It
also helps the people posting to
solidify their beliefs. You should
never have a goal to change minds,
you're wasting your time.

Quote: Evenbob

It's not going nowhere. I get PM's
from people who say have learned
a lot from my talks with FrG. It
also helps the people posting to
solidify their beliefs. You should
never have a goal to change minds,
you're wasting your time.

I'm glad others are benefiting from the exchange. I haven't, other than a little entertainment value, but my mind is pretty made up on the topic.

Quote: Wizard

There will be plenty of details to fight over, but if we could just get past this one issue it could put to rest what has been going nowhere for thousands of posts.

I would like to see these threads be required reading in middle/high school, the same way 1984 is.

Bob's post the other day about Chuck Conner, got me wondering if maybe that is where I got my idea's about god. We've all seen some old westerns where the mother would say, "say your prayers and go to bed".

These threads have been great , otherwise I never would have spent this much time considering organized religion.