The Holy Trinity

Quote: aceofspades

If everyone, henceforth, was raised in a bubble, without being told by "believers" growing up that there is an all powerful being (aka "God") - there would be no future believers in "God" -- "God" only continues to "exist" got believers because they were indoctrinated

This is not true. An all powerful being or creator becomes self-evident when we realize that 1) I, nor any other human being, created myself or anything that exists and 2) Things do not create themselves, have the reason for their existence in themselves, and do not spontaneously pop into existence. "God" in the generic sense is one of the most natural ideas that defines humanity and our history.

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What about villages in remote parts of the world still untouched by the Bible/Torah/Q'uran - never having heard stories of Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed -- what would you say to them to get them to all of a sudden believe in those stories?

Of course not, but I guarantee they will have a belief in some God or all powerful creator and sustainer of all life and existence. Every culture in every age has had some concept or understanding of God.

Quote: FrGamble

This is not true. An all powerful being or creator becomes self-evident when we realize that 1) I, nor any other human being, created myself or anything that exists and 2) Things do not create themselves, have the reason for their existence in themselves, and do not spontaneously pop into existence. "God" in the generic sense is one of the most natural ideas that defines humanity and our history.



Of course not, but I guarantee they will have a belief in some God or all powerful creator and sustainer of all life and existence. Every culture in every age has had some concept or understanding of God.

Ok but what if they believed in a set of 12 gods rather than the “one true God” you believe in?

Gods are brought about to explain the natural world during times when man was unable to explain certain things - as technology and scientific understanding grows, God fades into the distance

Quote: aceofspades

Ok but what if they believed in a set of 12 gods rather than the “one true God” you believe in?

How can I blame them if they have never heard the Gospel? That is why we need to be missionary in our efforts to share the Good News.

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Gods are brought about to explain the natural world during times when man was unable to explain certain things - as technology and scientific understanding grows, God fades into the distance

Again this is not true and a straw man argument. What you are describing is the "God of the gaps" and I do not believe in such a concept of God. God comes through our desire to do science and learn about the universe. Knowing that the universe was created with specific, and as it turns out miraculously fine tuned physical laws, as well as order and intelligibility is essential to understanding anything. If we thought the universe or anything in it was just a random popping into existence without any set laws or order how or why could we study it? The reality is that the more we understand our universe through technology and science the more we also understand God not the other way around.

Quote: FrGamble

why in the world do you insist on attacking my faith in God

Because you state that there
is a god like it's a fact, which
it is not. It's your opinion. They
don't let you state opinions in
court as facts, why should you
get away with it anywhere.

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but I believe it is totally naive and devoid of any reason

You have to believe that, you
painted yourself into a corner
with your unprovable beliefs.
For your god to be real to you,
all atheists must be branded
as nitwits. But that's true for
any argument that has no basis
in fact. The more extreme the
claim, like there is a god, the
more extreme the reaction has
to be against those who oppose
you.

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Exists, present tense. Here I can only tell you from my personal experience that He is more alive

Cool. Ever meet somebody who is
absolutely convinced they are a
figure from the past, like Napoleon
or Custer? They can be very compelling
in their testimony, they can almost
convince you they are that dead person.

I have no doubt you have over a long
period persuaded/cajoled/hypnotized
yourself into believing a guy long dead
is your best friend. That you need to do
this is frightening to outsiders, that's
why we love it when you 'Jesus people'
stick mostly to your own kind, those
that have this same affliction that you've
infected yourselves with. We get nervous
when you take to standing on street
corners in robes wearing sandwich signs
that say 'Repent'!

double

Quote: aceofspades

What about villages in remote parts of the world still untouched by the Bible/Torah/Q'uran - never having heard stories of Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed -- what would you say to them to get them to all of a sudden believe in those stories?

That's happened. The priests had a hell
of a time converting the native Californians
400 years ago. The natives got so sick of
the priests trying to explain sin to them,
they went along with it to get the priests
to shut up about it. As soon as the priests
left, they went back to their old ways.

The Church eventually
gave up and started schools to indoctrinate
the kids and it worked like a charm. Get
em while their young and you'll have robots
for life.

FrG will now say that never happened, he always
does. I will then provide links and he'll ask
where do I find such wrong info all the time.
Translation: My story is not Vatican approved
and so it never happened in his world.

Quote: FrGamble

I guarantee they will have a belief in some God or all powerful creator

Wrong. Many religions are nature based
and have no creator. They worship a
goddess that's see's over everything.

'In some faiths, a sacred female figure holds a central place in religious prayer and worship. For example, Shaktism, the worship of the female force that animates the world, is one of the three major sects of Hinduism. In Tibetan Buddhism, the highest advancement any person can achieve is to become like the great female Buddhas (e.g. Arya Tara), who are depicted as supreme protectors, fearless and filled with compassion for all beings.'

Quote: Evenbob

Because you state that there
is a god like it's a fact,

Which is exactly what you do. Tell me the difference between me stating that there is a God and you stating there is not a God? The only difference I can see is that I make arguments and provide evidence of God and you have never given an argument or any evidence that there is not one.

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For your god to be real to you,
all atheists must be branded
as nitwits.

How many times do I need to tell you that this is not true. I don't think all atheists are nitwits. I think most atheists if they are honest are agnostic and the ones who are true atheists have made a radical faith decision based not on evidence, logic, or reason but on emotion and desire. Sometimes they are not to blame for such a decision. In fact sometimes it is the scandalous behavior of those who claim to believe in God that lead them to their decision. I do not think they are nitwits. Please stop saying I do.

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The more extreme the
claim, like there is a god,

There is nothing extreme about claiming there is a God. It is the most natural thing for human beings to do. The extreme position is to say definitively that there is no God. Using your own logic, maybe that is why you are so extreme in your responses.

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Cool. Ever meet somebody who is
absolutely convinced they are a
figure from the past, like Napoleon
or Custer?

Nope, and I doubt you have either. Are you calling me and all who believe in God insane? I guess you do a better job veiling your personal insults so you don't get suspended for every post you address me in, but rest assured the offense is taken and it is hurtful.

Quote: Evenbob

Wrong. Many religions are nature based
and have no creator. They worship a
goddess that's see's over everything.

Thanks for agreeing with me. My point is that every culture throughout history has a notion of "God' be it a he, she, or force that see's over everything or "animates the world".

Quote: FrGamble

My point is that every culture throughout history has a notion of "God' be it a he, she, or force that see's over everything or "animates the world".

I agree. I would explain it as needing somebody to blame when there is a bad crop.