The Trump Impeachment Thread

Quote: SOOPOO

Tough call. The 'disqualification from future office' seems like it technically would be worthwhile. But just as the first impeachment, it will turn out to be a colossal waste of time. Sadly, I really don't think he has committed a defined impeachable offense. Ironically, his transgressions may be more suited to a 25th Amendment removal. Meaning he has lost it, yet hasn't per se committed any crimes.

Is either Loeffler or Perdue asking for a recount, or challenging the result of the Senate election in any way? My point is.... when does Shumer become majority leader?

I have not heard if they have asked for recounts.
I know both margins are outside of the automatic recount threshold.
I think certification of the vote has to happen first, then they can challenge. Not sure how long they have to challenge or if they have to wait a certain amount of time before the winners fly to Washington and are sworn in.

As for the 25th amendment, I think they will be trying to determine how "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" applies.

I can think of a few angles, none of which I find to be particularly compelling -

His "duty to defend the constitution" - trump has been working against the constitution for a long time regarding the outcome of this election, after losing every step along the way with legal challenges and recounts. You are left with him, with legal options exhausted, still claiming that he won, and won big.

His inability to do his duties as president - maybe you could say he was so self-interested and narcissistic, that he is simply mentally incapable (incapacitated in a way) of dealing with when his needs and desires don't align with the country's

This next one is going to be a blend of "incapable of performing his duties" and grounds for impeachment.
So, he motivates his supporters to go to the capital and demonstrate. I will leave out of this any interpretation of whether or not he was inciting violence, but getting past that, when things turned violent, he failed to act.

It should have been clear that the capital police were overwhelmed. Trump wouldn't activate the national guard to support them. Now here is where it gets scary - the Army secretary, in coordination and consultation with VP pence, legislative leaders, and VA/MD governors are the ones who decided to deploy. They are not in the chain of command. In DC, the one person who is in the chain of command to order the army secretary to deploy the guard is the president.

So, who made the order? Pence? Since trump wasn't willing or able to do it, it was basically a shadow-execution of the 25th amendment. Trump wasn't able to, so pence did.

What is also disturbing about that is that the military was taking orders at the top from someone who is not the commander in chief. That is the territory of coup or insurrection in itself. that said, I think they did the right thing.

Another possibility is that they could say that trump, by encouraging the mob, was acting to prevent the constitutional duties of the congress from being carried out, or even was inciting an attack against congress and the vice president. I heard people in the mob had pepper spray, helmets, gas masks, and zip ties. They came prepared to do much more than protest, and trump had been building people up to it for months, if not years.

Are those the grounds that they are going to use for either impeachment or 25th amendment? Who knows.
Lots to choose from.

Pence would NOT want to be president for just a day or two... would mean he couldn’t run for two full terms some day. Just one.

Quote: ams288

Pence would NOT want to be president for just a day or two... would mean he couldn’t run for two full terms some day. Just one.

Is that true? I thought if you are Prez less than 2 years it doesn’t ‘count’. Regardless... he would still go down in history as having been POTUS. Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure I’m right. I’ve thought about it with regards to Kamalas possible 10 year run.

Quote: SOOPOO

Is that true? I thought if you are Prez less than 2 years it doesn’t ‘count’. Regardless... he would still go down in history as having been POTUS. Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure I’m right. I’ve thought about it with regards to Kamalas possible 10 year run.

You're correct. 22nd Amendment.

Quote: rxwine

I've been listening to rightwingers argue over whether Trump incited that riot.

Technically he didn't order them to do anything violent, but an American President insisting the election was an illegal process against him and sending them down there all hyped up and then saying he was not responsible is a bridge way too far for me.

I'm trying to think of a good comparison. Like if someone spent a lot of time destroying your reputation, and eventually someone else punches you in the face. That other person may not have directed any violence against you, but would you really dismiss the blame of someone spending a lot of time destroying your reputation. I don't think you would. Nor would any sensible person.

I hate my neighbors. They stole from me. No one believes it, but I do.

Every day for two months I walk my German Shepherds pass their house. I tell my dogs Bad People live there. The Bad People stole from me.

They understand Bad People live there. We pass by their house, they growl and bare their teeth.

One day I see the Bad People outside as I walk my dogs. I drop the leashes.

I walk back to my house and watch the mayhem. I don't call them off. Only after I hear someone else call the police do I call them back.

I didn't tell them to attack. Though I understand their anger (after all, the neighbors stole from me), I didn't want anyone hurt. I love them. They're very special.

Quote: SOOPOO

Is that true? I thought if you are Prez less than 2 years it doesn’t ‘count’. Regardless... he would still go down in history as having been POTUS. Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure I’m right. I’ve thought about it with regards to Kamalas possible 10 year run.

Ooh, I didn’t know that!

I’m down for 10 years of Kamala!

Quote: SOOPOO

Is that true? I thought if you are Prez less than 2 years it doesn’t ‘count’. Regardless... he would still go down in history as having been POTUS. Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure I’m right. I’ve thought about it with regards to Kamalas possible 10 year run.

Not sure that he would be a "numbered" potus, as acting president, like Cheney under Bush.
I think it would take a resignation, death, or removal via impeachment in order to remove the "Acting" title.

Quote: ams288

Ooh, I didn’t know that!

I’m down for 10 years of Kamala!

Yeah, there is a chance she could become president and then run and take office two more times. I think it is just as likely that she becomes president and is then only eligible to run once, for a full second term.

Quote: Dalex64

Are those the grounds that they are going to use for either impeachment or 25th amendment? Who knows.
Lots to choose from.

One of the problems with Trump, is his mood can change in 3 days or less. Right now, he's satisfied that everyone realizes how powerful he is and that he actually generated some fear. So, he feels content to not make trouble for now.

People who think he is sorry about anything and feels in anyway contrite -- well, I seriously doubt he feels anything but content.

I read that it took some doing to convince him to come out and publicly say that there will be a peaceful transfer of power on the 20th. Part of what they used to convince him to make that statement was to tell him that if he didn't do it, it would be highly likely that he would be removed first.