The Pope retires!

Quote: Nareed

I don't mean to be offensive, but do you actually believe men of power and influence will actually vote as the Holy Spirit moves them?

In private, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them end up flipping a coin and count on God to guide the coin. Assuming it won't be a clear cut choice for just one favorite.

The Pope wields a lot of power. I don't know the details, or whether there are any checks and balances in the Church (and there must be some). But it strikes me the Pope is like the Emperor of the Church (see my post on the parallels between Rome and the Catholic Church). He can change the practices of hundreds of millions of people, and in some cases can have a huge influence in world affairs. I won't say John Paul II was absolutely essential for overthrowing the Soviet Union, but he had a very important role. he was essential for a rapproachment with the various Jewish communities.

So I can't conceive powerful men in the Church not chosing according to their best interests, whatever those may happen to be. And there are plenty of issues where the Church faces challenges. The increasing Muslim population and decreasing number of Catholics in Europe, for example. And will the Church adapt to the ever-widening social acceptance of homosexuality or will it keep fighting it? That's aside from the old reliables like ordaining women, absorbing priests from other denominations, heresies, naming of saints, orthodoxies, etc, etc.

So the Cardinals, and I've no idea how many vote on these matters, will have to consider these things, plus what capabilities are necessary and who has them. Not to mention that a younger man who may be on the post for decades will have a longer-term, deeper influence on the future than an older candidate. Just comapre John Paul ][ with the current Pope (quick, what's his name?). People will still eb tlaking abour John paul II long after Benedict XVI (?) is forgotten.

It reminds me a lot of senior Legionaires or Senators picking the next Roman Emperor. They even gather in Rome :)

Quote: Nareed

The Pope wields a lot of power.

And wealth.

If you can view this, it's pretty interesting. (is ad sponsered, but I don't know how to view it without ad)

Market for new Pope.

http://bettingzone.oddschecker.com/politics-and-election/next-pope/winner

Quote: rxwine

And wealth.

That goes without saying.

But of course, things that go without saying ar usually said by someone ;)

I've some vague memories of some fraud at the Vatican bank a few decades ago (though I could swear it was a few years ago <w>)

Quote: Nareed

So the Cardinals, and I've no idea how many vote on these matters, will have to consider these things, plus what capabilities are necessary and who has them. Not to mention that a younger man who may be on the post for decades will have a longer-term, deeper influence on the future than an older candidate. Just comapre John Paul ][ with the current Pope (quick, what's his name?). People will still eb tlaking abour John paul II long after Benedict XVI (?) is forgotten.

With Brazil and Mexico the two largest Catholic countries in the world, and the fastest growing Catholic population being in Africa, the Cardinals must know that now is the time for a non-European pope. You could argue that time was in 2005, but the choice of Benedict (who was from the internal apparatus in Vatican city) was made particularly so that his reign would be short.

With the USA having a mere 7% of the Catholics worldwide, and given the secular power of the USA in the world, I think we can safely say that the US cardinals won't receive serious consideration.

The number of cardinals that can vote are reported at 118, but it seems to me that at least 4 or 5 of them will reach age 80 in the next few weeks. I don't know at what date the cut-off is enforced. Possibly the day of the vote, or is it the day of the resignation or death.

While it has been 600 years since a pope resigned, Benedict is still one of the oldest men to hold the office. Some institutions must adapt to the increasing life-span of mankind. There is no shame, it is just that the requirements of the position simply require more vigor than is humanly possible for a man his age. I wouldn't be surprised if when he was Cardinal, he let it be known to some other people that he philosophically believed it was for a pope to retire. There may even come a future mandatory retirement at age 80.

It was also apparent that this pope was inevitably going to suffer from the pedophile scandals in the Western Hemisphere. Look how many cardinals are paying the price in the USA. I think Benedict knew this fact going into the office, and he knew that he would have to clear the way for the next pope. I admire him for making this sacrifice.

I go along with those who say a Latin American Cardinal will get the nod. Between the number of Catholics there and the regions secular rise in world importance it seems a fit. Last time around they chose a Pope bound to be transitional. I think one from Africa is a stretch at this time.

What will be interesting is to see how the relationship between old and new works. Does a retired Pope still get addressed as "Pope" like a former POTUS or Govenor?

Add me to the write-in-FrGamble boosters. :-)

I started off this thread by saying that this is only the second time in history the Pope has resigned, but that is not true. A very holy man St. Celestine V resigned the papacy after only a little over five months. He criticized the Cardinals in the 13th century for taking almost three years to elect and new Pope and because of his passionate pleas on behalf of the Church it was decided that he would be a good Pope. They were wrong, he was more interested in being a hermit and had no political concerns, cares, and abilities. He established the process of a conclave to sped up the process of choosing a new Pope, then declared the Pope can resign if he so chooses, and promptly utilized the new rule he put in place to retire back to a life of prayer and solitude. Anyway thought I would clear that up.

Thanks for the two votes to be Pope but let me ask you all, would you really want that job? I am more than happy being a parish priest and it is way more work than I can handle looking after one parish, I can't imagine looking after them all!?!

Quote: AZDuffman

I go along with those who say a Latin American Cardinal will get the nod. Between the number of Catholics there and the regions secular rise in world importance it seems a fit. Last time around they chose a Pope bound to be transitional. I think one from Africa is a stretch at this time.

The father of the current King of Spain withdrew his right to be King in the early 1970's. By doing so he avoided a battle with Francisco Franco and assured a smooth transition to a kingdom when the dictator died. He took the title of Count of Barcelona, but when he was buried he was described as a king (even though he had never reigned).

There is even some question if the pope will go back to his given name of Joseph instead of his papal name of Benedict. He will probably be titled "Bishop of Rome, Emeritus" as opposed to "Pope Emeritus." The new pope will have to state if he can still be called "Your Holiness" as a courtesy.

One normally addresses the ex-president as Mr. President.

It would be kind of an insult to Latin America which has had the majority of Catholics now for over 30 years to be skipped in favor of Africa.

Quote: FrGamble

I started off this thread by saying that this is only the second time in history the Pope has resigned, but that is not true. A very holy man St. Celestine V resigned the papacy after only a little over five months. He criticized the Cardinals in the 13th century for taking almost three years to elect and new Pope and because of his passionate pleas on behalf of the Church it was decided that he would be a good Pope. They were wrong, he was more interested in being a hermit and had no political concerns, cares, and abilities. He established the process of a conclave to sped up the process of choosing a new Pope, then declared the Pope can resign if he so chooses, and promptly utilized the new rule he put in place to retire back to a life of prayer and solitude. Anyway thought I would clear that up.

If the Pope is God's voice on earth, then no reason why God might say to the Pope "hey dude, you've done what I needed you to do, move aside, Bob's got some great ideas about a new liturgy I need to get out there". Or sort out a conclave for election.