Gun Control -- As usual discussed only after a massacre.

Quote: AZDuffman

Yeah, I have a negative outlook. Since I have developed it I have been right far more than wrong.

I agree. Optimism is for weaklings
and dullards. Give me realism
and pragmatism any day.

Quote: Face

*shudder* I disagree.

FrG is 100% wrong, as usual. We need
an armed populace now and into the
future more than we ever had in the
past. An armed population is mighty
thing, every leader of every country
that wanted to do bad things knows
that as fact.

Quote: FrGamble

Some of these guns can cause unthinkable carnage and I think we should do something about it.

Yeah, that's what we need, namby pamby
doo gooders like you running things. The
'why can't we just get along' crowd. The
lemmings, those cowering in the corners.
Never gonna happen.

Quote: Face

I don't know Mejican law, but in the US, "it depends".

It would be for my next trip to the US. Though I'm uncertain of the type of weapon and ammo one should carry.

Quote:

For a .50cal machine gun you need a Class III license. I won't bore you, but when all is said and done, you've a low chance of being granted it and will spend $20k - $60k before you have that weapon in your hand legally.

Isn't that an egregious violation of the 2nd amendment? You can't bring down and F-35 with a rifle.

Quote: FrGamble

I think this is where I am at.

The more I think about the low gun violence stats Face mentions the more I don't think they are convincing. Much less people percentage wise have been killed through hijacking airplanes but we responded and did something because of the sheer possibility of causing so much carnage. Some of these guns can cause unthinkable carnage and I think we should do something about it.

Would you be in favor of banning cell phones Padre. Distracted driving due to cell phone use causes about 25% as many deaths as gun homicides according to official US statistics. This is likely a serious under reporting of the problem when compared to the stats from other countries.

As far as your hijacking planes comment I think that is proof of the demand to do something even if it is the wrong thing. The controls put in place using 9/11 as justification have cost the world economies trillions of dollars. What could we have done with that money if we had spent it productively? We have never had as little personal freedom as we do now all in the name of security. You need to put the Vegas deaths into perspective. Vegas was a highly visible and tragic event that pulls at our heart strings. In the scale of deaths in the world it is meaningless. More children starve to death everyday in many midsize 3rd world cities than were killed in Vegas. How many of those children could have been fed if we funnelled our feel safe money to feed them?

Remember Paco's quote Padre. Often doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.

Okay kenarman is talking me down from the ledge.

I understand that doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.

However, isn't doing nothing worse than doing anything that is not wrong and helps even a little bit!?!

Quote: FrGamble

However, isn't doing nothing worse !

Arming yourself and taking a few classes
isn't doing nothing, it's being proactive
about your life. You should try it sometime,
hiding in the shadows and hoping for
the best is a strategy that gets people
killed.

Quote: Nareed

Isn't that an egregious violation of the 2nd amendment? You can't bring down and F-35 with a rifle.

Inorite? XD

Quote: Nareed

It would be for my next trip to the US. Though I'm uncertain of the type of weapon and ammo one should carry.

Lol, then you'd be out of luck. I don't know of any licenses granted to foreigners, just foreigners with home country licenses being granted access under restrictions for the purpose of hunting. Class III is certainly out of the window, and I'd imagine a conceal carry would be a tough row to hoe, though i think perhaps possible.

I wonder how you'd fare in a free state, like Wyo. I suppose you'd need a state driver's license for the purchase, but I bet you could straw purchase easy as you'd like and open carry without a single issue the rest of your stay. Everyone carries so you'd likely not even be noticed.

Quote: kenarman

Would you be in favor of banning cell phones Padre. Distracted driving due to cell phone use causes about 25% as many deaths as gun homicides according to official US statistics. This is likely a serious under reporting of the problem when compared to the stats from other countries.

It is the carnage and mass casualties and terror that guns cause that makes it important to do something about them. Distracted driving is a big problem but 59 people don't die and 500 people injured when someone texts and drives. Let me ask you if you think we should ban cell phones when driving if every once and awhile more than 20 people died when someone was distracted while driving?

Quote:

As far as your hijacking planes comment I think that is proof of the demand to do something even if it is the wrong thing.

Okay, we now have lots of 20/20 hindsight and I wonder what you think would have been the right thing? We had to do something didn't we? I think we coould all make an argument that our response is not the best, but is it wrong or worse than anything you might suggest?

Quote:

You need to put the Vegas deaths into perspective. Vegas was a highly visible and tragic event that pulls at our heart strings. In the scale of deaths in the world it is meaningless. More children starve to death everyday in many midsize 3rd world cities than were killed in Vegas. How many of those children could have been fed if we funnelled our feel safe money to feed them?

We are doing lots of work to fight against the injustice of starvation! We are fighting it with many, many good organizations and laws up the whazoo, as we should. The number of starving people in the world is going down and we shouldn't rest till its zero, but the fact is we are in the fight and trying. What are we really trying to do to combat gun violence?

Quote: FrGamble

It is the carnage and mass casualties and terror that guns cause that makes it important to do something about them. Distracted driving is a big problem but 59 people don't die and 500 people injured when someone texts and drives. Let me ask you if you think we should ban cell phones when driving if every once and awhile more than 20 people died when someone was distracted while driving?

Distracted driving (and as I said earlier likely under reported) causes 3500 deaths in the US per year, this is compared to the 59 deaths in Vegas. If they all die at once or 10 a day does it really matter? The total is the same. And no I don't think cell phones should be banned but texting and driving is a various dangerous thing to do and it does effect other lives.

Quote: FrGamble

Okay, we now have lots of 20/20 hindsight and I wonder what you think would have been the right thing? We had to do something didn't we? I think we coould all make an argument that our response is not the best, but is it wrong or worse than anything you might suggest?

On my part it isn't 20/20 hindsite. I starting complaining about the overkill on security on 9/11 shortly after it became obvious how far it was going to be taken. The 9/11 deaths were also insignificant compared to the annual deaths in the US. The over reaction by the US just provides the terror in the population that the act was meant to. You are not 100% safe and never can be. You are however damn safe and most of the things we have discussed here are never going to happen to you or me.

Quote: FrGamble

We are doing lots of work to fight against the injustice of starvation! We are fighting it with many, many good organizations and laws up the whazoo, as we should. The number of starving people in the world is going down and we shouldn't rest till its zero, but the fact is we are in the fight and trying. What are we really trying to do to combat gun violence?

The more you talk about it the more entrenched gun owners become, the more mass shooting seem like an option and the less likely that anything meaningful will happen. Your work is already probably making a difference as I am sure that you have been able to calm down a distraught person Padre. Maybe one of them might have resorted to shooting people. That is what you are trained for and likely do a good job. Leave the guns to FACE.