The Gay Thread

This WNBA reporter from ESPN said she never heard of a bullying culture within the league: : "Allegations of bullying and abuse should be taken seriously. But having covered the WNBA since its inception in 1997, I had never heard of players being physically or emotionally bullied -- let alone on a routine basis as Wiggins suggested."

Further, no former or current players have supported Candice Wiggins' characterization of bullying inside the WNBA. And multiple players who are straight have disputed her claims.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736607/wnba-players-dispute-candice-wiggins-controversial-allegations

Quote: quadriga

This WNBA reporter from ESPN said she never heard of a bullying culture within the league: : "Allegations of bullying and abuse should be taken seriously. But having covered the WNBA since its inception in 1997, I had never heard of players being physically or emotionally bullied -- let alone on a routine basis as Wiggins suggested."

Further, no former or current players have supported Candice Wiggins' characterization of bullying inside the WNBA. And multiple players who are straight have disputed her claims.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736607/wnba-players-dispute-candice-wiggins-controversial-allegations

That was my instinct as well.

Quote: quadriga

This WNBA reporter from ESPN said she never heard of a bullying culture within the league: : "Allegations of bullying and abuse should be taken seriously. But having covered the WNBA since its inception in 1997, I had never heard of players being physically or emotionally bullied -- let alone on a routine basis as Wiggins suggested."

Further, no former or current players have supported Candice Wiggins' characterization of bullying inside the WNBA. And multiple players who are straight have disputed her claims.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736607/wnba-players-dispute-candice-wiggins-controversial-allegations

As often happens, these threads sometimes cover similar but different points. My point and evidence was about women's college basketball, not professional. I have no knowledge of, and no reason to believe that professional teams in the WNBA are lesbian bully havens. I do believe they exist in the college game.

Quote: Gandler

I think this goes back the the point of gender neutral playing. You mention that you play basketball with women. I see no reason why there should be an NBA and WNBA or any other league variation at college levels. It seems like if everyone just played together it would solve a lot of problems (including perceived problems). I think sports should be integrated when possible.

(Quote clipped, relevance)

Not your best take, imo. Basketball ain't bowling.

Quote: AZDuffman

It is really one of those things that it is hard not to have heard about. Ditto LPGA tour. Unless you live in a PC bubble you have to have heard about it. Even watching you can see the stereotype look on several of the players.

I don't live in a PC bubble...I just never look up anything about professional golf.

Quote: AZDuffman

You still honestly do not believe that gay people take a beard to live a secret life? Gays will also sometimes take a spouse to have kids then go back to being gay. I have met at least one. I have heard of more. And yes, you are on the wrong side of it as you deny gays molest youth males. You defend the gay message all the time.

I have not heard the term "beard" until this forum.

I have accepted that there are documented cases of straight married men coming out as gay late in life.

That being said, I have never denied that gays molest youth. I have denied that a straight man (in all other aspects of his life) molesting a youth makes him gay. If somebody abuses children, gender is not a factor. People only obsess over this when a man molests a boy. When a man molests a girl nobody says "Look at what straight people do".... But, yes I would accept that the rate of pedophilia is probably the same in all sexual orientations. I would not accept a straight man (in all legal aspects) abusing a boy being called "gay".....

Quote: AZDuffman

In the case I gave it is insane as hockey even then was popular in several USA cities. The USA has 10Xs the population of Canada yet Canada had 98% of the players? The point is sometimes a certain group dominates a certain sport.

I know hockey is super popular in Canada and people grow up playing it (not really the case in most of America), so having a higher level in professional teams does not shock me. I don't know enough about hockey to comment much else. But, yes I have no problem conceding that certain demographics will be over represented in various sports.

Quote: AZDuffman

People pushing the gay narrative deny it all the time, why would they not defend it? But seriously, you need to learn when to take things serious not literal. Because people who take things literal miss the point when they try to debunk a point by trying to find an exception or say some number is not right. Kind of like a guy who gets accused of stealing $20,000 and defends himself by saying "YOU ARE A LIAR, IT WAS $13,000!" What is more important? That the number was wrong or that he is a thief?

So in this case the important thing is not the 98% number in and of itself, the important thing is the toxic gay culture in the WNBA. As to "research" I do not know what kind of research you need to do. To say that women's basketball attracts more gay females the higher the level is the same as telling someone professional wrestling is fake. Maybe you have to be told when you are in junior high, but eventually you just realize it.

The WNBA itself is mostly a joke. Been playing 25 years now and still has no serious fan base. Would not exist if not for the NBA supporting it.

No I don't. This must be a line from some conservative talk show, because I have heard this several times since the Trump presidency when people tear apart statements, regarding basic facts and blow it off as puffery, with the line "take him seriously not literally", so I am sure this line was churned from somewhere. If you are making a specific claim the facts matter. (I was going to give an example of a time Trump lied and this statement was used, but there is no point, everyone knows all of the examples, take your pick). Sorry, I want to take a President literally, I don't want a President who feels the need to brag about everything...


But, anyway, nobody defending the "gay narrative" (whatever that means) supports any kind of bullying. I would never tolerate bullying of any kind and anyone who would is probably not a good person (regardless of their sexual orientation). You are acting like this is something that anyone on the left would ever defend even if it actually did happen (which it is looking more and more like it probably didn't).....

Quote: Gandler

I have not heard the term "beard" until this forum.

I have accepted that there are documented cases of straight married men coming out as gay late in life.

You need to pay more attention. It was mentioned in "Seinfeld." It was a plot line in "Mad Men" more than once. Heck it was even on an episode of "Dallas" back in the 1970s.

Quote:

That being said, I have never denied that gays molest youth. I have denied that a straight man (in all other aspects of his life) molesting a youth makes him gay. If somebody abuses children, gender is not a factor. People only obsess over this when a man molests a boy. When a man molests a girl nobody says "Look at what straight people do".... But, yes I would accept that the rate of pedophilia is probably the same in all sexual orientations. I would not accept a straight man (in all legal aspects) abusing a boy being called "gay".....

How many times do I need to explain it. If a male goes for males he is gay. Age does not really matter. At least not at or after puberty. A guy who goes for way young boys is a sicko but still homosexual when you get down to it.







I know hockey is super popular in Canada and people grow up playing it (not really the case in most of America), so having a higher level in professional teams does not shock me. I don't know enough about hockey to comment much else. But, yes I have no problem conceding that certain demographics will be over represented in various sports.

Quote: AZDuffman

People pushing the gay narrative deny it all the time, why would they not defend it? But seriously, you need to learn when to take things serious not literal. Because people who take things literal miss the point when they try to debunk a point by trying to find an exception or say some number is not right. Kind of like a guy who gets accused of stealing $20,000 and defends himself by saying "YOU ARE A LIAR, IT WAS $13,000!" What is more important? That the number was wrong or that he is a thief?

So in this case the important thing is not the 98% number in and of itself, the important thing is the toxic gay culture in the WNBA. As to "research" I do not know what kind of research you need to do. To say that women's basketball attracts more gay females the higher the level is the same as telling someone professional wrestling is fake. Maybe you have to be told when you are in junior high, but eventually you just realize it.

The WNBA itself is mostly a joke. Been playing 25 years now and still has no serious fan base. Would not exist if not for the NBA supporting it.

Quote:

No I don't. This must be a line from some conservative talk show, because I have heard this several times since the Trump presidency when people tear apart statements, regarding basic facts and blow it off as puffery, with the line "take him seriously not literally", so I am sure this line was churned from somewhere. If you are making a specific claim the facts matter. (I was going to give an example of a time Trump lied and this statement was used, but there is no point, everyone knows all of the examples, take your pick). Sorry, I want to take a President literally, I don't want a President who feels the need to brag about everything...

Yes, you do. Because it is how an intelligent person listens to things. Intelligent persons try to get the meaning of what is being said. I remember learning this skill in 4th and 5th grade reading assignments. I learned when I was a kid and my dad told me how the new busses "never sat still" but really they did every night, it was an expression. Conservative talk shows use the line because said shows use it to make a point. Like how Limbaugh mastered "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd." Like when he endorsed Bill Clinton then said he never said it. He did this to make a point. Life is not the Harvard Debate Club.

Quote:

But, anyway, nobody defending the "gay narrative" (whatever that means) supports any kind of bullying. I would never tolerate bullying of any kind and anyone who would is probably not a good person (regardless of their sexual orientation). You are acting like this is something that anyone on the left would ever defend even if it actually did happen (which it is looking more and more like it probably didn't).....

I believe the left would totally defend it. They would say that it is somehow justified, same as they defend state sanctioned discrimination based on skin color as long as the right people get the benefit of it.

Quote: Mission146

I don't live in a PC bubble...I just never look up anything about professional golf.

Seems the best pro golfers on the Womens tour are Asian. They are very very private about their personal lives. They simply dont put their sexuality on display. AZ off his rocker

Quote: AZDuffman

You need to pay more attention. It was mentioned in "Seinfeld." It was a plot line in "Mad Men" more than once. Heck it was even on an episode of "Dallas" back in the 1970s.

I don't watch any of those shows. But, I will concede that it is a term that is used. In fact a quick google search says that it refers to any faux relationship (by one or more partners) used for publicity, attention, social acceptance, or personal deception.

So it seems that it can apply to far more than gays, in modern context it seems to often apply to celebrities who date people that they may not really be into for various reasons.

Quote: AZDuffman

How many times do I need to explain it. If a male goes for males he is gay. Age does not really matter. At least not at or after puberty. A guy who goes for way young boys is a sicko but still homosexual when you get down to it.

No. This I will not concede. If a man is straight his whole life, has children (as is the case for almost all BSA cases which is why they are BSA leaders), and abuses a boy, he is not gay. It can be less clear in cases such as the Catholic Church where there is no record of any open relations of the abusers (because of religious prohibitions). But, for BSA cases it is very easy to point out that people are straight-married, had kids (presumably through straight sex), and were regarded as straight. People who abuse minors tend to be predators that take advantage of opportunities.

Quote: AZDuffman

People pushing the gay narrative deny it all the time, why would they not defend it? But seriously, you need to learn when to take things serious not literal. Because people who take things literal miss the point when they try to debunk a point by trying to find an exception or say some number is not right. Kind of like a guy who gets accused of stealing $20,000 and defends himself by saying "YOU ARE A LIAR, IT WAS $13,000!" What is more important? That the number was wrong or that he is a thief?

So in this case the important thing is not the 98% number in and of itself, the important thing is the toxic gay culture in the WNBA. As to "research" I do not know what kind of research you need to do. To say that women's basketball attracts more gay females the higher the level is the same as telling someone professional wrestling is fake. Maybe you have to be told when you are in junior high, but eventually you just realize it.

The WNBA itself is mostly a joke. Been playing 25 years now and still has no serious fan base. Would not exist if not for the NBA supporting it.

I don't disagree about the WNBA. Women's sports are simply less popular and profitable.

But, the theft example the amount is important (both for civil and criminal charges). And, no I don't agree that things need to be taken seriously and not literally (especially when there is no precedent for the claim in either context). If you make a statement it should be accurate (to the best of your ability), if you are speculating, you should say, "Lots of people on the team seemed to be gay".

Quote: AZDuffman

Yes, you do. Because it is how an intelligent person listens to things. Intelligent persons try to get the meaning of what is being said. I remember learning this skill in 4th and 5th grade reading assignments. I learned when I was a kid and my dad told me how the new busses "never sat still" but really they did every night, it was an expression. Conservative talk shows use the line because said shows use it to make a point. Like how Limbaugh mastered "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd." Like when he endorsed Bill Clinton then said he never said it. He did this to make a point. Life is not the Harvard Debate Club.

Maybe I am too simple. None of that makes sense to me. If you make a statement and then deny saying it, you are just being deceptive. Not an positive attribute in my view. People should speak what is on their mind, not play games to make obscure points...

Also, for clarity and a small defense of conservative talk radio, if you are a showman that is fine (its not something I would do), but when you are in a position of actual power (IE the President or a Senator) this is not fine. Public officers should speak the truth and not engage in strange word games to prove some kind of point..... Especially the President, when you have the power to instantly declare war or launch a military strike, I really do not appreciate puffery and showmanship when dealing with world leaders....

Quote: AZDuffman

I believe the left would totally defend it. They would say that it is somehow justified, same as they defend state sanctioned discrimination based on skin color as long as the right people get the benefit of it.

Nobody would defend bullying. This is a total strawman. Bullying is bad. This event probably never occurred, but if it did the players acted bad and should be punished.

Quote: Gandler

No. This I will not concede. If a man is straight his whole life, has children (as is the case for almost all BSA cases which is why they are BSA leaders), and abuses a boy, he is not gay. It can be less clear in cases such as the Catholic Church where there is no record of any open relations of the abusers (because of religious prohibitions). But, for BSA cases it is very easy to point out that people are straight-married, had kids (presumably through straight sex), and were regarded as straight. People who abuse minors tend to be predators that take advantage of opportunities.

If that is the case then you are agreeing it is a choice. Are you saying it is a choice?

Quote:

Maybe I am too simple. None of that makes sense to me. If you make a statement and then deny saying it, you are just being deceptive. Not an positive attribute in my view. People should speak what is on their mind, not play games to make obscure points...

When Rush did it he did it to make a point that people said what Bill Clinton said and did in the past did not matter because "he was younger then." So Rush correctly said he did not endorse Bill Clinton because "he was younger then" even if just a few hours. A case of him demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. It is an effective thing to do though people on the left just tend to deny what is happening.