Science and Religion

Lost in all this palaver is the inescapable fact that we all live by faith. I do not mean a religious faith, simply that we trust our coinage, our maps, our almanacs. No one does their own research as to the distance between Biloxi and Vegas, we rely on 'accepted sources'.

Quote: Fleastiff

simply that we trust our coinage, our maps, our almanacs. No one does their own research

But you could if you wanted, that's
the point. You can't verify if there
is a god, it's impossible. So you
go out on a limb and have faith.
For the other things you mentioned,
we use trust, not faith.

Quote: Evenbob

we use trust, not faith.

Trust when you have some familiarity with the subject; faith when it is utterly beyond your ken.

Quote: Fleastiff

Lost in all this palaver is the inescapable fact that we all live by faith. I do not mean a religious faith, simply that we trust our coinage, our maps, our almanacs. No one does their own research as to the distance between Biloxi and Vegas, we rely on 'accepted sources'.

Yeah, but it's annoying pretending all accepted sources are equal. Which of you guys wants to chug poison and juggle rattle snakes?

Mark 16:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Quote: Fleastiff

Trust when you have some familiarity with the subject; faith when it is utterly beyond your ken.

I think this is very profound and a good point.

Quote: Evenbob

No you don't. You've made it abundantly clear
many times that your personal experience is
such a be all end all of personal experiences,
that we should just buy it on your word and
throw our faces on the carpet and worship
your god.

I don't think I have ever said this or even implied it. Your experience is your own. I am simply pointing out that the difference between our experiences is that you are completely closed off to the idea of God and religion. Is it any wonder that you don't believe? I was once there and I understand. You like to say I only believe because I was brainwashed as a young kid. Does that mean you don't believe because someone has brainwashed you? I continue to maintain that if you opened yourself up to the possibility of God and desired faith in Him you would have a much different experience than your antagonistic and mean attacks against believers.

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We all create our own reality here,

I agree with you to a point. Can I just point out that this might mean that we are a little more than cockroaches?

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You say I've chosen not
to believe in your god. It's not a choice,

Didn't you just say earlier that we all create our own reality? When you head stops spinning around in regards to your arguments let me know and we can discuss them.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't think I have ever said this or even implied it.

You honestly don't remember
saying things like, why isn't
my personal experience enough
for you. And, my personal
experience of god is all you need.
C'mon.

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this might mean that we are a little more than cockroaches?

You still don't get it. It doesn't
matter if we are 1000 times more,
in the scheme of the universe
we are all equal. We are all
equally important, and unimportant.
I find huge comfort in that, you
will find it appalling.

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When you head stops spinning .

With no evidence, there is no choice.
For the most part, people believe
in god because they were told to,
or because everybody they know
does. For those of us on the outside
we need a lot more than that.

Quote: Evenbob

You honestly don't remember
saying things like, why isn't
my personal experience enough
for you. And, my personal
experience of god is all you need.
C'mon.

I've asked why you discredit or refuse to accept my personal testimony as evidence. However, I never once said that your testimony is not valid or that mine trumps yours.

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We are all
equally important, and unimportant.
I find huge comfort in that, you
will find it appalling.

I'm glad you seem in some ways to be backing away from your human beings are equal to cockroaches, at least in the sense that we alone can pretend to make our own reality. Of course you know there is really only one reality and you and I both have no more power than a cockroach to change that. I don't find recognizing our smallness and humility in the light of the universe appalling. In fact it is important to recognize that the world or universe or reality doea not revolve around me or you. You would do well to realize that.

I do think the idea that we are equal to a cockroach is appalling, and if you don't mind me saying it, kinda stupid.

Quote: FrGamble

I think this is very profound and a good point.

Thank you. I will try to post while drunk more often.

Quote: FrGamble

I never once said that your testimony is not valid or that mine trumps yours.

You don't have to say it, it's implied
when you say that your personal
experience should be enough proof
for anybody that god exists. That
your testimony blows theirs out
of the water.

Testimony is a huge part of Xtionity,
because it's all you have in the way
of any kind of 'proof'. When I was
involved with the Xtion group years
ago, giving your testimony was
always a big deal. What god did in
your life to change it, blah blah blah.

I was reading that telling your story
has gotten so out of hand in some
churches they're doing away with
it. For many it's turned into a game
of 'my story is greater than your
story' and people are embellishing
like crazy. And there lies the problem
with testimony. It should only mean
something to them and not anybody
else because half of it could be made
up nonsense that they've been telling
themselves for so long they actually
believe it now.

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I'm glad you seem in some ways to be backing away from your human beings are equal to cockroaches,

Not backing away from it in the
slightest. The universe doesn't
play favorites, no matter what
you've been told.

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we alone can pretend to make our own reality.

It's not pretending. You think your
reality is the same as mine? You
have all these beliefs and rituals &
ideas in your reality, that you are
creating, and I have none of it. I'm
creating a totally different reality
from yours and living in it.

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universe or reality doea not revolve around me or you.

We're all of equal importance, You me
and the cockroach. We're all the
center of an infinite universe and
of equal unimportance. And that's
a great thing.