Hydrogen Powered Cars available in California

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April 7th, 2021 at 4:10:21 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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The Toyota Mira, the Honda Clarity, and the Hyundai Nexo are carving out a new market in California for hydrogen powered cars with zero emissions and 300+ mile range. There are only about 50 stations where you can get refueled, so that new car usually comes with 21 days of free rental if you want to drive out of state. There is only one place between San Francisco and Los Angeles to refuel. There is one place in San Diego County, one in Santa Barbara County, and one near Lake Tahoe. There are three places in Sacramento. Cars have starting MSRP between $50K and $60K.

Toyota dropped the price of their car from $60K to $50K, including $15K in free fuel, and a 21 day rental. Not surprisingly sales jumped from under 500 in all of 2020 to 869 in the first 90 days of 2021.
April 7th, 2021 at 4:50:21 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin

The Toyota Mira, the Honda Clarity, and the Hyundai Nexo are carving out a new market in California for hydrogen powered cars with zero emissions and 300+ mile range. There are only about 50 stations where you can get refueled, so that new car usually comes with 21 days of free rental if you want to drive out of state. There is only one place between San Francisco and Los Angeles to refuel. There is one place in San Diego County, one in Santa Barbara County, and one near Lake Tahoe. There are three places in Sacramento. Cars have starting MSRP between $50K and $60K.

Toyota dropped the price of their car from $60K to $50K, including $15K in free fuel, and a 21 day rental. Not surprisingly sales jumped from under 500 in all of 2020 to 869 in the first 90 days of 2021.


Hydrogen cars are just another form of electric cars. The hydrogen is created by electrolysis the emissions would depend upon the source of the electricity.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
April 7th, 2021 at 8:02:00 PM permalink
Pacomartin
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Quote: kenarman
Hydrogen cars are just another form of electric cars. The hydrogen is created by electrolysis the emissions would depend upon the source of the electricity.




They are selling a unit now in Australia that will generate and store 40 kWh for your home. It costs US$27K and weighs over 700 lbs so it sits outside of the house. But it will lose 50% of the energy when you try to use it and the system's maximum continuous power output of 5 kW, limited presumably by the throughput of the fuel cell.

The intent is to drop the price to US$22,800 by next year and begin international sales.

This unit will be of little interest to most people as it is purely for the idealistic consumer with money to burn. It would be difficult to go offgrid unless you were only powering electronics.
April 7th, 2021 at 8:33:24 PM permalink
Pacomartin
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It is not clear how much credit Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai get with the California Air Resources Board for their hydrogen automobiles. Do they get the average of models, or is the average weighted by the number of each model sold.
April 7th, 2021 at 8:38:38 PM permalink
Mooseton
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Why’s everyone abandoning the electric car?
April 7th, 2021 at 9:29:37 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Mooseton
Why’s everyone abandoning the electric car?


The power plants of hydrogen vehicles convert the chemical energy of hydrogen to mechanical energy by reacting hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell to power electric motors.

So it is a type of electric car, but it does not rely on the grid.
April 8th, 2021 at 2:37:52 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Mooseton
Why’s everyone abandoning the electric car?


Because they are one of those ideas that sounds good but will have major problems working. We do not have the power generating capacity. Mining the needed materials does large environmental damage and we may not be able to even supply if we totally convert. And the biggie is that too few people have a nice, suburban garage to recharge overnight in. They live in apartment complexes or have to use on-street parking.

My understanding is a H refuel is about as fast as gasoline.
The President is a fink.
April 8th, 2021 at 2:40:54 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
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The whole foundation for any type of electric car being a solution for reducing carbon emissions is primarily that we are now generating electricity with natural gas as much as we are. There was a recent WSJ article showing a chart that shows this improvement isn't all that great, though I wouldn't say it looked only "marginal". Whether assumptions were biased ... this is always a question ... well, who knows?

It's not clear to me why natural gas is better carbon-wise. Cleaner? Sure. Are they factoring in the carbon cost of mining coal and oil versus natural gas when they say natural gas is better for reducing carbon emissions?

The article pointed out the standard electric car manufactured today starts out 'in the hole' against gasoline burners as it is more carbon intensive to make them.
In the Spring an old man's fancy heavily turns to thoughts of turkeys
April 8th, 2021 at 3:41:47 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 129
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Quote: odiousgambit
The whole foundation for any type of electric car being a solution for reducing carbon emissions is primarily that we are now generating electricity with natural gas as much as we are. There was a recent WSJ article showing a chart that shows this improvement isn't all that great, though I wouldn't say it looked only "marginal". Whether assumptions were biased ... this is always a question ... well, who knows?

It's not clear to me why natural gas is better carbon-wise. Cleaner? Sure. Are they factoring in the carbon cost of mining coal and oil versus natural gas when they say natural gas is better for reducing carbon emissions?

The article pointed out the standard electric car manufactured today starts out 'in the hole' against gasoline burners as it is more carbon intensive to make them.


EVs are a sort of religion. Tesla is an outright cult. I have even had supporters online insist that the power comes "from the outlet" and did not grasp it had to be generated. Democrat pols must own some kind of stock in them for all they push them. At the same time CA has blackouts due to power shortages they push them even harder. I cannot wait to hear the cries when more power plants have to be built to generate all the electricity for recharging. You know they will protest left and right, it is what they do.
The President is a fink.
April 8th, 2021 at 3:51:18 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: AZDuffman
My understanding is a H refuel is about as fast as gasoline.


They advertise 5 minutes. I don't really time it, but I think you can usually fill a gasoline tank in slightly less than 5 minutes.

Right now it is very expensive to refuel. I think $75-$125 depending on the tank. Toyota's decision to offer $15K of free fuel as well as to drop the price from $60K to $50K and include 21 days of rental resulted in a 500% increase in sales.

It is a resonable assumption that Toyota made more money in the first 90 days of 2021 selling it's gasoline pigs than it did on the Mirai.

Pig sales were 2037 Sequoias (a full-size SUV derived from its Tundra pickup truck) and 1896 Land Cruisers (Toyota's longest running series of models and the second longest-running SUV in production behind the Chevrolet Suburban. Production of the first generation of the Land Cruiser began in 1951) .
Mirai sales were 859 units (up from 147 units for 1QTR 2020).

But Toyota does not sell a battery powered electric vehicle in North America. Plug in sales were just under 10K units in the first 90 days (out of 529K units sold). Mild hybrid sales were 115K which is by far the most of any automobile manufacturer,

I think they need the Mirai, not just for future development, but to satisfy the requirements of the California Air Resources Board
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