Is Portland over?

Quote: AZDuffman

There are entire Wikipedia articles on population decline but basically we require it to keep the economy going. Because it also means an aging population, same thing is going to totally take down China the next decades. They are done as far as being a rising power. Momentum will keep them near the top, but big, big problems there.

As to decline, it is a sign of optimism. Peoples who are optimistic have more kids, people who are not have less. So you have people seeing the decline even if they are not able to articulate it.

The best financial decision that can be taken individually, or as a couple, is to have zero children. Myself, I had two more kids than I financially should have, but my ex-wife and I are at 100% replacement, so that should make you happy.

Anyway, you just have to manage the economy and change the allocation of resources. A standardized maximum age that you are allowed to live to would be good, at least, for those who are not completely self-sufficient having reached that age...or at least that are not fully taken care of by some entity that is not the Government.

I don't grant replacement theory, but I do grant that the average lifespan going up is a bad thing. If people would die sooner, then replacement wouldn't matter as much.

Quote: AZDuffman

Peoples who are optimistic have more kids, people who are not have less.

Actually it's the opposite. People who are doing better economically and are more optimistic tend to have fewer kids. People who are doing poorly economically feel less optimistic have more children because family is seen as a security blanket, the more kids you have the better your chances of someone taking care of you in your old age.

Quote: missedhervee

Historically people worked for the betterment and survival of their tribe, or affinity group: think 'cave men" pre-civilization and early civilizations.

The willingness to sacrifice oneself for the betterment of others was deeply ingrained in people and helped advance human progress.

Where do we see that today?

Not in America: many of us (not all, thankfully) are too self-absorbed, too addicted to FB and the like to lift up our heads from our phones and care much about others: why should we?

No, we see the willingness to sacrifce oneself today in Islamic cultures primarily, except now they're willing to die for their god, not for their tribe.

Where do we see that today?

I don't know. I would say, "Look at the fiscal policies that Liberals want," but I guess that many of those pushing for such policies do benefit from them. There are certainly some who would not benefit, especially when considering the tax implications on percentages yet to be instituted...but would have to be instituted.

They don't know it because they are mostly idiots, but a $15/hour minimum wage is a terrible idea that will raise the prices of base consumer goods and staples in a fashion that will make everyone (except those that experience the largest percentage increase in direct wages) worse off. That would be a sacrifice that anyone so situated would be making, but again, most of them are not aware of that.

I make the mistake of caring about others and trying to help them, but you're right, of course.

If there is a decline at all, I would say that it's because 99.99%+ of us, as humans, have reached the end of expansion, discovery and meaning. The only place left to explore is outer space and we're not going to really get anywhere (relative to the Universe) quickly enough in this lifetime and I tend to doubt ever.

Welcome to the beginning of the end. We can make a goal of sustaining the current situation for as long as possible, which is fine, but there's nothing left to point to that contradicts the statement that this whole adventure is ultimately meaningless.

Quote: Evenbob

People who are doing poorly economically feel less optimistic have more children because family is seen as a security blanket, the more kids you have the better your chances of someone taking care of you in your old age.

Here's another way to look at it ...

I (white guy) worked as a college recruiter for an all black university in the South during the seventies.

They didn't want me, really, but the money dangled by the feds required some integration, so voila, there I was: token white boy (I loved it),

Anyway, my boss, a black man, often told me that the blacks all had to have lots and lots of kids, because that way, once they out-numbered whites they could call the tune.

Never happened, of course, but today we see a high birth rate with brown folk, which when coupled with their coming to America in droves now allows them to outnumber whites in California (39% of state residents are Latino, 36% are white), and their numbers are increasing all across this fair land.

Do the math: Spanish will become our official language someday unless this is stopped.

Whether it SHOULD be stopped is another question.

Quote: Evenbob

Actually it's the opposite. People who are doing better economically and are more optimistic tend to have fewer kids. People who are doing poorly economically feel less optimistic have more children because family is seen as a security blanket, the more kids you have the better your chances of someone taking care of you in your old age.

Read carefully, I said "peoples" meaning an entire society.

Quote: Gandler

There is less crime and violence, this is a popular talking point for the right, but its simply false.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/crime-and-police/violent-crimes/

Violent crime is in a downward trend for the last several decades, there are some years that there are small spikes, but overall it is steadily going down....

There are also less wars and violence globally.

Overall less violence in both America and the world than in the 1950s, this is simply true... And, every year continues to get better.

As for fertility rates? Who cares..... We need to slow population growth anyway. This is a sign that Americans are using birth control properly and following safe practices. Also, families generally want less children than they did several decades ago (maybe 1-2 versus 2-5 in the past for popular averages), so even families who want kids, aim to have less (just 1 or 2). I don't see how people wanting less kids and practicing safe sex is a sign of society declining..... If anything it symbolizes female liberation and societal education on safe sex....

Crime was in a downward trend, now that appears broken and we will see it go back to 1970s levels. Simply because the policies that made crime go down are being abandoned.

Globally has nothing to do with the decline of USA society or Western society.

Calling it "female liberation" does not change things. And a news flash, lots of women wish it would be like it was when they could raise the kids at home. I stick to "show me a radical feminist and I will show you a miserable woman." Women are wired to have kids, when they don't their bodies tell them something is wrong. Hormones go out of balance. A big reason I stayed single is that women on the dating scene who do not want children are both rare and crazy.

Take a look at South Korea. TFR is down to almost 1.0, and the nation is filled with manic depressives.

Quote: missedhervee

Do the math: Spanish will become our official language someday unless this is stopped.

Never going to happen. Spanish is one of the most limited languages in the world, it only has 90,000 words where English has over a million words with a hundred and seventy thousand of them in current use. English is being spoken in more and more places because you can say more in English than just about any other language.

Quote: Evenbob

Never going to happen. Spanish is one of the most limited languages in the world, it only has 90,000 words where English has over a million words with a hundred and seventy thousand of them in current use. English is being spoken in more and more places because you can say more in English than just about any other language.

Another little thing. For new words especially regarding tech lots of languages just use the English word because there is no native word.

I heard if best but forger where. Mexican said, "If my kids learn in Spanish they can become busboys and dishwashers. If they learn in English they can manage the restaurant."

So smugly say the English-speakers now, but if the numbers flip it may be your English-speaking descendants who bus the tables.

Strength of numbers would carry the day.

EB's argument that Spanish is too limited will not matter, they can adapt new words if needed.

I already see the chiseling away of white, i.e. English superiority here in the west, as many things are in both English and Spanish, including packaging on products and verbal instructions on the phone.

Wake up and smell the tostadas.

Quote: missedhervee

So smugly say the English-speakers now, but if the numbers flip it may be your English-speaking descendants who bus the tables.

Strength of numbers would carry the day.

EB's argument that Spanish is too limited will not matter, they can adapt new words if needed.

I already see the chiseling away of white, i.e. English superiority here in the west, as many things are in both English and Spanish, including packaging on products and verbal instructions on the phone.

Wake up and smell the tostadas.

Right!? As if English is the only language capable of inventing new words. Germans, for example, are also really good at it. In fact, they’ll often, if not usually, do it by combining existing words they already have.