Should Trans People be allowed to use opposite sex bathrooms?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6549470/

Quote: AZDuffman

I have always wondered how a doctor can do this operation and not violate "first, do no harm."

As to "limit happiness" there are a few problems. A big one is what is the long-term "happiness?" The trans community does anything to stop the stories about how the depression these people often have. Instead of treating the mental issues the mental issues the current thinking seems to be bring out the scalpel. But it is like a person who is depressed saying they will move to a new city. If other underlying issues are not taken care of they are just depressed in a new city, but depressed worse since they now know nobody there.

I continue to maintain that there is a bigger issue of male problems. The sheer imbalance of MTF vs FTM operations says something is wrong with our men. Instead of so many operations we should be looking closer at this. We will not be better as a society with more and more men walking around thinking they are women.

I’ll try an answer one by one.

As far as ‘do no harm’, so many things we do might be deemed ‘harm. A nose job has a non-zero risk of death. A vasectomy is ‘harm’. Same concept for a myriad of procedures. As long as the patient is made fully aware of the risks, the patient can decide if the benefit to HIM or HER outweighs the risk. The informed consent process for transgender surgeries is MORE than ANY other procedure. I’ll bet you it takes over a year from the day you walk into a surgeons office asking to have your parts removed until it actually happens.

As far as the ‘happiness’ part, can you imagine anyone less happy than a person looking down their shorts seeing a penis attached when they think they are supposed to be a woman? These are troubled people both before and after their surgeries. The surgery does make some (most?) feel better, but certainly not all.

As far as other ‘underlying issues’, I am pretty sure all are under some form of psychiatric care.

Answering a previous question, I think pretty much all insurances cover this care. Medicaid as well. I have mixed feelings on the government or insurance paying. But if not, it would only be affordable for the VERY rich.

Quote: SOOPOO

I A vasectomy is ‘harm’..

A perfect example of how something harmful is relative. You can bet if a woman was sterilized when she was planning to have kids is going to be considered harm. Yet many of the same women having had a couple kids have a tubal ligation.

Quote: SOOPOO

As far as ‘do no harm’, so many things we do might be deemed ‘harm. A nose job has a non-zero risk of death. A vasectomy is ‘harm’. Same concept for a myriad of procedures. As long as the patient is made fully aware of the risks, the patient can decide if the benefit to HIM or HER outweighs the risk. The informed consent process for transgender surgeries is MORE than ANY other procedure. I’ll bet you it takes over a year from the day you walk into a surgeons office asking to have your parts removed until it actually happens.

Way back I we learned it was 2 years. And you did not just get to have the surgery. Was it "Silence of the Lambs" with the plot that the antagonist could not get a sex change? I will accept your position on "do no harm" and accept we all have our line there. For me transgender surgery is harm.

Quote:

As far as the ‘happiness’ part, can you imagine anyone less happy than a person looking down their shorts seeing a penis attached when they think they are supposed to be a woman? These are troubled people both before and after their surgeries. The surgery does make some (most?) feel better, but certainly not all.

Yes, I can. Someone who is quadriplegic. Someone blind who cannot see when they look down. Someone with cancer and a few months to live. IMHO the "thinking they are supposed to be a woman" needs to be handled by therapy. They are indeed troubled, the help needs to be mental. The hard part there is we are in a society where people think they are supposed to get and be whatever they want. I causes all kinds of depression.

All of the sudden I have an idea for a movie about a guy forced to have trans surgery and then goes after the person who forced it. Of course if I did produce that I will end up in a government camp somewhere.

Quote: AZDuffman

All of the sudden I have an idea for a movie about a guy forced to have trans surgery and then goes after the person who forced it. Of course if I did produce that I will end up in a government camp somewhere.

Forced to? Well you could maybe set that way into the future ... a science fiction thing. A movie about a pre-teen girl being influenced into it and not really understanding how she was being manipulated, actually a movie about that is almost for sure to be made sometime. Maybe would have been by now except for fear of being ostracized.

Soopoo, you didn't respond about this aspect ... maybe because you felt I shouldn't criticize the medical community over it. I however feel they have it coming. Case in point, a minor thing I realize, but I think it says volumes: it's no longer hip to use the word 'mother' in a general way, medically, if you don't know if some of the people being addressed might be 'guys' who were born with a vagina and a womb. So we are to use 'birthing-parent' ... no sooner than this was dreamed up by god knows who, the medical community was all-in instantly and totally. Shameful.

I'm searching for that Texas doctor who was in the news maybe a year ago for being a breast removal advocate, having removed hundreds of such ... it began to be questioned whether or not she* had a fetish about that. Can't find it.

* I think. But who knows what that means anyway anymore

I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]

Medical associations may have official endorsements of one thing or another, but doctors still act within their own preferences. So, it's just as fair to say doctors are making individual choices on whether they want to participate in transition surgery.

In the 40's and 50's most male babies were circumcised, that became unpopular because it was hurting the baby and medical benefit was in doubt and is seldom done now other than religious reasons.

Now in this millennia it is okay to just cut the whole damn thing off. I find our world today a very strange place.

Quote: kenarman

In the 40's and 50's most male babies were circumcised, that became unpopular because it was hurting the baby and medical benefit was in doubt and is seldom done now other than religious reasons.

Now in this millennia it is okay to just cut the whole damn thing off. I find our world today a very strange place.

I have no idea where you live but non religious circumcisions are extremely common here. That refusingcircumcision is the exception rather than the rule.

Quote: rxwine

Medical associations may have official endorsements of one thing or another, but doctors still act within their own preferences. So, it's just as fair to say doctors are making individual choices on whether they want to participate in transition surgery.

More than that. Transition surgery is EXTREMELY complicated and takes extra training which a surgeon would actively have to seek out before undertaking these operations. It’s not like a general surgeon has on his shingle…. “Hernias, Gall bladders, and sex change surgery here”

Quote: SOOPOO

More than that. Transition surgery is EXTREMELY complicated and takes extra training which a surgeon would actively have to seek out before undertaking these operations. It’s not like a general surgeon has on his shingle…. “Hernias, Gall bladders, and sex change surgery here”

I thought it might be performed by a number of doctors in stages. Plastics, general, urology, gynecology. So, they have a specialist for the whole thing.