New high capacity airplanes

As their attractiveness to full fare airlines falls, perhaps a low overhead carrier like Southwest could upgrade by assembling a fleet of re-conditioned 747's and operating them like their 737's.

There's something to be said for keeping your maintenance costs down by operating a fleet of identical planes, and after all these years, the 747 has proven to be very reliable.

Quote: reno

This pie chart of 747 carriers is from January 2016:

Thanks!

Most of those are 747-400s, perhaps a couple of 200s and SPs as well. The 747-8i is newer, therefore it should last longer (though BA seems in no hurry to ditch their 400s). I know Korean and Lufthansa have some. I've no clue whether anyone else does (aside from cargo airlines, and two are on order by the Air Force).

Quote: Ayecarumba

As their attractiveness to full fare airlines falls, perhaps a low overhead carrier like Southwest could upgrade by assembling a fleet of re-conditioned 747's and operating them like their 737's.

It would kill their frequencies.

But in the first place, Southwest seems joined at the hip with the 737.

Quote: Nareed

When I see a 747 in Delta livery, old or new, it just seems wrong. No idea why that is, but it left me with the feeling Delta didn't use to have 747s.

Delta has 6 747's that were delivered to Northwest 13. Mar 1989 to 31. Aug 1990. A 7th once was delivered to Northwest on 18. Oct 1999 that was originally intended for Air France. In 2008 they became part of Delta's fleet with the merger.

United has 21 747's delivered between 20. Jan 1990 and 12. May 2000. So their fleet is considerably larger and newer.

Quote: Pacomartin

Delta has 6 747's that were delivered to Northwest 13. Mar 1989 to 31. Aug 1990. A 7th once was delivered to Northwest on 18. Oct 1999 that was originally intended for Air France. In 2008 they became part of Delta's fleet with the merger.

I wonder why Delta chose to operate them rather than sell or lease them. Maybe their routes had to change when they swallowed Northwest?


BTW, long haul aircraft have a longer operational life span due to the lower number of cycles they undergo. This is well-known, but until recently it applied almost exclusively to wide bodies (the one major exception being the 757). But now with Norwegian flying larger numbers of 737s across the Atlantic, we may see these smaller, narrow body aircraft reach life spans unthinkable as shortly as five years ago.

The 747's are only used on a couple of routes, such as DTW to Japan, maybe MSP to Japan.

Delta didn't have that route, so when they merged with Northwest, they kept those planes and that route. If they got rid of the planes and kept the route they'd have to allocate from the remaining fleet, possibly eliminating one of the Delta routes in order to do it.

I don't recall how many routes they had to change or were eliminated due to the merger. They had different hubs, so there wasn't a whole lot of overlap there, and they were already both flying as often as they were on some of the the same routes, so the demand was there to support them both with competition.

Quote: Nareed

I wonder why Delta chose to operate them rather than sell or lease them. Maybe their routes had to change when they swallowed Northwest?

The merger of airlines is a very political operation in the USA. Usually the airlines have to tell the FAA that they will not to change any routes for at least two years. In addition they usually have to give up some slots at some airports where they have particular dominance.

The legacy carriers, also known as the Big Six, which had a large presence in the industry before deregulation and survived through the deregulation era through consolidations, include United Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, American Airlines, Continental Airlines, and US Airways . The mergers involving the dissolution of three of these carriers was particularly sensitive politically.


Mexican domestic travel is much different, as there are only a few airports that can serve as hubs. You have a lot more head to head competition with different airlines frequently flying the same routes.

Quote: Dalex64

Delta didn't have that route, so when they merged with Northwest, they kept those planes and that route. If they got rid of the planes and kept the route they'd have to allocate from the remaining fleet, possibly eliminating one of the Delta routes in order to do it.

I suppose then it was cheaper to adopt a few exemplars of a new type, requiring separate maintenance and training. But then delta isn't a one-type airline by a very long shot.

Quote: Nareed

I suppose then it was cheaper to adopt a few exemplars of a new type, requiring separate maintenance and training. But then delta isn't a one-type airline by a very long shot.

Keep in mind that Delta received 31 B747s at from Northwest in 2008, and they are down to only 7. That is a lot of capacity to replace with other planes,

Delta also had 5 B747's in the 1970s. The first Boeing 747-132 was delivered on 25. Sep 1970 and returned to Boeing for resale on 16. Sep 1974 .

Quote: Pacomartin

Keep in mind that Delta received 31 B747s at from Northwest in 2008, and they are down to only 7. That is a lot of capacity to replace with other planes,

So they operated them, but also got rid of them as fast as possible?

I wonder whether Southwest flew a single DC-9/MD-80/90/B717 it inherited from Air Tran.

Quote:

Delta also had 5 B747's in the 1970s.

That livery on the 747 still feels wrong.

Not as wrong as Pan Am's on a DC-10, even when you know Pan Am's goal was to fly every type of plane ever made ;)