Original Sin?

I kept hearing last weekend people saying
the resurrection is the defining point in
Christianity. That's just not true.

What defines the religion is Jesus 'saved'
people from something, that was his purpose.
He saved them from sin. No sin, no saving.

People just assume sin is real, without any
proof whatsoever. You go and 'find Jesus'
when you feel you need to be saved from
something you can't even prove exists. It's
nuts.

I often hear Christians bragging that they are
sinners. Yup, they say, that's me, I'm a sinner!
Like it's a badge of honor or something. It's
just a game, an adult kids game. Lets play
the game of sin and redemption. Why not,
it's fun. We get to feel special, hang out with
others who are special, and look down on
those who aren't members of our special
club.

Being saved from something that's a total fiction,
that's the really 'special' part.

The Resurrection is the defining point in Christianity. It is Jesus' victory over sin and death. The Resurrection is our salvation and how we are saved, we too thanks to Jesus will share in His victory over sin.

I don't understand why you say sin is not real. Is it not a universal phenomenon that we feel a gap between the person we are and the person we want to be? Do we look at the world and say everything is perfect, or do we long for a better world? Jesus doesn't need to convince you that you need saving, an honest look in the mirror or on the news will let you know that we need help. You are just lying to yourself or pretending if you don't acknowledge you need help.

Now there are lots of ways I imagine you can receive that help, a lot of secular get help books, yoga, other religions, what have you, but lets stop your silly idea that there is no sin, no disconnect between now and our hopes. Christianity addresses the problem of sin in a unique and awesome way. A way that begins by freeing you from guilt or shame. Acknowledging you are sinner or someone who is not perfect and in need of help is just the truth. The idea that you are still loved in your sinfulness and you have been saved is the gift of Christianity. Being a sinner is not quite a badge of honor, but it is reality and the sooner you wrestle with that truth and recognize it the easier it will be to find something to 'save' you.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't understand why you say sin is not real.

noun: sin; plural noun: sins
1.
an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.

Have you thought this out? Sin is an insult
against a creator god. It means a god
created the entire universe, billions of
galaxies and trillions of suns and planets,
as a moral experiment.

It's a concept wirh a limited understanding
of what the universe really is. When the
idea was invented, they thought the earth
was it, everything revolved around us. So
they came up with a small, quaint creator
god and laid it all on him.

That people still choose to worship this
ego centered, tyrannical, thin skinned,
hard to please quaint god, that's the
real paradox. You keep trying to take
millennial old ideas that worked perfectly
for the times they were invented for, and
jerry rig them to fit modern times. It fails
miserably.

So are you saying that people today don't experience the need to be 'saved'? Are people today not frustrated with themselves and with the world around them and desire both to be better? These are old ideas that are still as valid today as they were a couple thousands of years ago. We are not perfect yet we long for perfection. It is like there is an echo of our true destiny and home placed inside us by God calling us to accept His salvation and unconditional love.''

I'm curious if God is so ego centric; why did He create us? If God is tyrannical, thin skinned, and hard to please; Why did He enter into a relationship with us? Why did He become one of us to serve us and lay down His life for us?

Quote: FrGamble

It is Jesus' victory over sin and death.

If we take the Jehovah/Jesus/Nameless God myth seriously, that would be like talking about the victory of Apple, Wozniak and Jobs over the Apple I computer's hardware and software.

Quote:

Do we look at the world and say everything is perfect, or do we long for a better world?

This only means humans are not cookie-cutter clones of each other, all marching in step.

I wish I knew more definitions, so I could clearly and concisely label all of the fallacious and illogical arguments that are being used by EvenBob and FrGamble.

Is it worth it to even point them out? Do either of you even care?

Quote: Dalex64

I wish I knew more definitions, so I could clearly and concisely label all of the fallacious and illogical arguments that are being used by EvenBob and FrGamble.

Is it worth it to even point them out? Do either of you even care?

I do, please point them out. I want to learn and improve the arguments. Thanks.

Quote: Nareed

If we take the Jehovah/Jesus/Nameless God myth seriously, that would be like talking about the victory of Apple, Wozniak and Jobs over the Apple I computer's hardware and software .

It sounds like another good story of the dangers of artificial intelligence or giving your creation freedom. Unfortunately if you want to love and be loved there is no other choice than radical freedom.

Quote: FrGamble

So are you saying that people today don't experience the need to be 'saved'?

You mean saved from sin. I certainly
don't, I have no idea what that means.
Sin is a fabricated concept, why would
you need to be 'saved' from it.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm curious if God is so ego centric; why did He create us? If God is tyrannical, thin skinned, and hard to please; Why did He enter into a relationship with us? Why did He become one of us to serve us and lay down His life for us?

He didn't create us, he wants no relationship,
he had no son because he doesn't exist. You
start in the middle of the melodrama, and
ignore all the stumbling blocks before it.

You can't prove sin or god exist, so you pretend
they do. Once you've taken that gigantic step
of fantasy, you can (and do) invent all manner
of equally fanciful things to go with it. You invent
angels and demons and virgin moms and saints
and miracles and saviors. You invent a whole
fantasyland by just taking one little step over
the line.

Atheists refuse to take that step because we need
proof, actual scientific proof that god and sin exists. To
us, Christianity looks like a huge burden and a
colossal waste of time for no apparent reason,
other than to entertain yourselves and gain power
over others.

Quote: Dalex64

I wish I knew more definitions, so I could clearly and concisely label all of the fallacious and illogical arguments that are being used by EvenBob and FrGamble.
?

If you don't even know the definitions,
how do you know they're fallacious and
illogical? In other words, you know FrG
and I are wrong, you just don't know why.

Present your logical and truthful arguments,
then.