Original Sin?

Quote: Dalex64

So, you want everyone to be Catholic,

I think he's admitted as much.

Not that the church is committed to converting all the non-Catholic Christians and all the non-Christians into Catholicism, but they do try often when they see an opportunity. For all I know, they still send missionaries to some places in the guise of charitable work (the work is real, the proselytism is an add-on and perhaps the main reason).

Alas, that wish is doomed to fail.

Assuming Jesus did live, remotely as depicted in the Bible, and assuming a cult grew around him even while he was still alive, then I estimate all the world's Christians (ie the cult centered on Jesus) perhaps all believed exactly the same doctrine for perhaps ten days or so. People being people, there'd have been differences of opinion and interpretation at once.

By the time of Constantine, barely 300 years alter, there were already several splinters including Gnostics, Monophysites, Nestorians, Arians, among others. And I'd bet all the money on Earth plus 50% extra, that each splinter had sub-splinters. Hell, today you may think the big split is between Catholics and Protestants, and that's one split. but there are many types of Protestants and many subtypes. More interestingly there are at least two main branches of Catholics, Roman and Orthodox, with about as many sub-branches (though smaller and more informal).

Get them all to believe the same thing? Yeah, right.

Quote: Nareed

Get them all to believe the same thing? Yeah, right.

The NT is as clear as mud, that's why
there are over 2500 different Xtion
offshoots. And counting, more are
being born as we speak. The Catholics
are so full of themselves, they made
up a lot of their own stuff and claim
it's comes right from Jesus. Hubris
on display.

Quote: Nareed

I think anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. And if they want to be wrong, it's their problem and not mine. So long as they keep from forcing their disagreements on me. When they do, they make it my problem.

So you aren't up for discussion or debate?

Quote:

I know one couple in particular who unquestionably were deeply in love with each other. They didn't want to have children, but did largely due to pressure from family, friends, society at large and people like you (with a different religion). Their relationship suffered a great deal and never recovered until after the children married and moved out.

A couple's love is no indication as to their fitness to raise children. Pushing all couples to do so gets you disasters like the one above (And yes, they were a real couple, namely my aunt and uncle on my father's side).

I'd be curious if this was a case when this couple was pushed into having children when they weren't ready or did not want to at the time or if they really never wanted to have children together? In the first case I would agree we have to let couples make that decision when they feel it is best for them and not pressure them to do so before they decide. If it is a case where a couple really just wants to never have kids I've always wondered what their reasoning might be. In my experience I have had a few couples who shared with me that either they themselves had a really hard childhood or in their immediate family they have seen the troubles parents have had and they want no part of it.

Quote:

So, do I really believe people who believe in deities need psychiatric help?

No.

But it really made you angry that I said so, didn't it?

Not angry, just surprised. You seem to flip a switch and become sarcastic Nareed very quickly so it is hard to know when you are serious or not.

Quote: Evenbob

So Einstein and Twain and Asimov and
the hundred other really smart people
I could name who were atheists weren't
'thinking people', then.

You can be really smart in certain fields of science, or in music, or in other disciplines and still be an atheist. Being an atheist just means you aren't very smart in philosophy. Or to put it another way people who don't really spend a lot of time thinking about the big questions like why are we here? I think you have admitted to me many times that you yourself never think about God or these big questions unless you are writing in these religion threads.

Quote: Dalex64

You continue to add words to the Bible that are not there, and interpret other words that are there in a way that you like.

Um...I think that is exactly what you are doing. However, it should be remembered that I am not a fundamentalist when it comes to reading the Bible. In fact the idea of reading the Bible literally did not come along as an idea until very late in the development of Christianity.

Quote: FrGamble

You can be really smart in certain fields of science, or in music, or in other disciplines and still be an atheist. Being an atheist just means you aren't very smart in philosophy. Or to put it another way people who don't really spend a lot of time thinking about the big questions like why are we here? I think you have admitted to me many times that you yourself never think about God or these big questions unless you are writing in these religion threads.

You think Stephen Hawking has not spent a lot of time thinking about why we are here or how we got here?

Quote: Dalex64

So, you want everyone to be Catholic, and then would force people who did not want to, to have children.

It is clear that you are not allowed to use NFP to indefinitely postpone having children, so you wouldn't allow two people who loved each other to marry and be happy. If they did, they would be living in a state of unrepentant sin and would go to hell, or be advised to live in chastity.

Talk about disordered.

What are you talking about?

I do want everyone to be Catholic because it is the truth, but if people didn't value the Church's teaching on marriage and its ends I wouldn't force them to be Catholic.

Of course I would allow two people who loved each other to marry and be happy. If they used NFP and were open to the possibility of new life coming from their marriage then they could continue to use that natural and moral way to plan their family and postpone having children as long as they were in discussion with each other about their reasons and that they were bringing this issue up in prayer.

How could they be living in sin and go to hell if they were seriously having this discussion with each other and with God and did not feel it was the right time for them to have children. Do you really think I would believe such things? It seem to me that you are disordered man.

Quote: Dalex64

You think Stephen Hawking has not spent a lot of time thinking about why we are here or how we got here?

Not at all in a philosophical, logical, or metaphysical sense.

Quote: FrGamble

Being an atheist just means you aren't very smart in philosophy.

LOL! You sure are full of yourself. Men like
Joseph Campbell made it his life's work and
came to the conclusion there is no god. He's
still not smart as you, though, right? There's no sense
arguing with a brainwashed robot like you,
why even bother.

Quote:

I think you have admitted to me many times that you yourself never think about God or these big questions unless you are writing in these religion threads.

I also never think about unicorns or Leprechauns
either, unless we're discussing them. What's your
point.

Quote: FrGamble

I do want everyone to be Catholic because it is the truth,

No, it's your truth, not 'the' truth.
People locked in asylums have
their own truths too, you realize
that, right? The proof you have
of your truth only makes sense
to you. Doesn't that bother you?
I would sure as hell bother me.