Original Sin?

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September 24th, 2019 at 8:34:32 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 130
Posts: 18259
The best article I've read on prayer
yet. This guy gets it, and explains
it very well, why prayer doesn't
work. This is from the very end
of the article, but the whole article
is well worth the read.

In the end, one question remains: If prayer cannot be a way to achieve our desires or build a personal relationship with the Creator, then what is it for? What purpose does it serve? The answer to this question is obvious. The true purpose of prayer is to make the people who pray feel better – it is a way of making believers feel they have exerted some degree of control over a situation that is beyond their control. Indeed, this is one of the major purposes of religion. Human beings have always been, and still are, at the mercy of a complex and often frightening world. It is only natural that people in such circumstances would be eager, even desperate, for a way to calm their fears and give themselves confidence, and this is what prayer provides. It gives believers a “direct line” to the highest power in the universe, the one whom they are told is on their side and will make sure everything turns out all right for them. This ability to cope has always been one of the major perceived benefits of religious belief, and atheists who seek to make inroads against theism would do well to remember it. As long as believers picture atheism as a bleak existence bereft of meaning or hope, they will always reject it regardless of the arguments offered in its favor. If atheism is ever to spread and flourish, we must overcome these misperceptions and show that, on the contrary, it leads to empathy, purpose and positive action. The most insidious effect of prayer is that it encourages believers to remain passive in times of crisis, waiting for divine deliverance that will never come rather than taking effective action. Atheism, by contrast, teaches human beings to get up off their knees and begin living life. Rather than ask for all our wishes to be fulfilled, it is up to us to bring into existence the world that we want to live in. As the great agnostic orator Robert Green Ingersoll wrote, “The hands that help are holier than the lips that pray.”

Nothing Fails Like Prayer

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/nothing-fails-like-prayer/
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 25th, 2019 at 9:29:25 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 6714
Give it up Bob you nor your quotes seem to understand prayer and that is why you fail to understand it or think it fails. You keep falling back on the straw man argument that prayer is about exerting control over God, getting what you want, and remaining passive. None of these things are remotely true about prayer. Why can't atheists see that the hands that help are inspired by the lips that pray? Maybe it is because they know people of faith are the most charitable and contribute the most to society in trying to fix it's ills. Ills that are often cause by the apathy and self-contentedness atheism has shown to cause throughout history.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
September 25th, 2019 at 9:40:24 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 46
Posts: 5105
Quote: FrGamble
Maybe it is because they know people of faith are the most charitable and contribute the most to society in trying to fix it's ills. Ills that are often cause by the apathy and self-contentedness atheism has shown to cause throughout history.


I am an atheist and I think the above is a load of crap
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
September 25th, 2019 at 11:55:48 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 130
Posts: 18259
The whole article comes down to this:

"The true purpose of prayer is to make the people who pray feel better – it is a way of making believers feel they have exerted some degree of control over a situation that is beyond their control."

If you really listen to people who
pray a lot, it's just like the sentence
above says. They feel like they are
controlling something that they
have no control over. Praying is
scary because it means the person
is out of touch with reality. They
think they live in a magical universe
where some invisible being is at
their beck and call to do their bidding.

Praying is as close to a mental illness
as you can get without actually
stepping over the loony bin line..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 25th, 2019 at 2:10:40 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 6714
Quote: terapined
I am an atheist and I think the above is a load of crap


History and facts disagree with you.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
September 25th, 2019 at 2:14:17 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 6714
Quote: Evenbob
They feel like they are
controlling something that they
have no control over. Praying is
scary because it means the person
is out of touch with reality. They
think they live in a magical universe
where some invisible being is at
their beck and call to do their bidding.


Anyone who prays to think they can control God is not praying. I pray a lot, why are you not listening to me? Have you ever heard me talk about prayer in the disfigured and distorted way your mind incorrectly thinks about it? You are not making any sense and continue to attack windmills.

The universe is a magical place and it is obvious that there is an invisible being who not only created it but continues to hold it in existence. Your illogical disbelief in the supernatural disqualifies you to even discuss the idea of prayer.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
September 28th, 2019 at 8:18:35 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 130
Posts: 18259
Even the so called 'lords prayer'
is a watered down non specific
nothing burger.

"Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven."

This is just kissing gods ass,
smoothing the way before
you ask for something.

"Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us."

Translation: We're so pathetic
that we can't even find food
by ourselves. And we know
we're going to royally screw
up today, so forgive us in advance.
That's a real confidence builder.

"And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

We are so weak and stupid, please
bail us out when we get in trouble.
Uplifting, not.

That's it, very pathetic. Kiss gods
ass, and admit we're pitiful morons
who can't tie our own shoes
without a gods help. This whole
prayer is meant to keep us servile and
with low self esteem. There is
nothing uplifting here, just demeaning
drivel.

The last part can't be included because
it's just more ass kissing that was
added much later and is in none
of the early translations.

'For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever. Amen.'
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 29th, 2019 at 3:46:46 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 6714
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 2nd, 2019 at 3:36:07 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 130
Posts: 18259
Quote: FrGamble


The video is pure invention and
wishful thinking. It's editorial
claptrap made to advance a
certain agenda. It's overthought
to the extreme.

My definition was much closer.
Kiss gods ass because he seems
to crave that, beg a lot because
he loves that too, and end by
kissing his ass again.

Like anything else, it means
what you want it to mean. Or
it can mean nothing at all.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 3rd, 2019 at 8:08:10 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 6714
It is painfully obvious you believe that you want it to mean what you want it to. This is one of your biggest faults in thinking. You have no interest in truth and I doubt you believe it exists except your own truth that you make up yourself.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
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