In The News Today...

Quote: Gandler

When you are in a life-or-death situation you have to make a lot of quick risk mitigation decision. Even if that is true (I have no idea, and it does not sound like any reputable source does either), how many kids did it save by preventing him to escape to other areas of the building and continue shooting? Were there people in the barricaded sector with him to begin with? Were they still alive at the time of barricade? These are all questions that we do not know, that the people on the ground have to decide relatively instantly with limited information. Its very easy to armchair quarterback such an incident after the fact, but none of us were there, its one thing to see helicopter videos and computer sim recreations, and a totally different thing to be on the ground making decisions with limited information under direct danger, and trying to decide what will mitigate the most harm.

I’m sure the cops will be totally forthcoming with all the facts and conduct an honest investigation of themselves. /s

Quote: ams288

I’m sure the cops will be totally forthcoming with all the facts and conduct an honest investigation of themselves. /s

Its not up to the cops on the ground, it will be the higher level people who review it (as they probably already are). I am sure there are endless bodycams and since it a school security cams, so its not like there is much that can be hidden..... Its wrong to blame the cops and not the mass-shooter for something that they actively were trying to stop with minimal force.

I am baffled by the reports that a school resource officer "confronted" the shooter, but allowed admission.

C'mon, man, the guy was clad in tactical gear and packing an assault rifle.

Of course I've no idea exactly what a "school resource officer" is.

If a paid school resource officer was armed and got cold feet and refused to step up and stop or even try to stop the fiend from entering then I see a massive amount of potential liability for the school district and / or agency providing the school resource officer.

Details are too sketchy at this point to get a clear picture as to who did what and when.

Quote: missedhervee

Of course I've no idea exactly what a "school resource officer" is.

Sounds like some useless position added in the 90s.

Quote: AZDuffman

Sounds like some useless position added in the 90s.

Its just a local police officer(s) assigned to a school or district. I think most schools have them now. Some larger districts have their own departments which fall directly under the district as opposed to the County or City. Smaller cities just have an appointed cop from the local department. I don't think there is any special training other than standard police qualifications (probably varies by State).

Where I grew up (at least high school, which is all I remember) he was just a local City cop who basically was appointed to hang out at the high school during the school day. I heard a rumor that he had DUI charges and needed a position that did not require driving for a few years from one of the teachers, but I have no clue if this is actually true, though he did just kind of appear about half way through high school, and he was the only one, so either they needed him to be placed somewhere specifically or there was suddenly decided a need for a cop to be present, but only when he was working (which in my city seemed unlikely, pretty much no crime). He was always super chill, and I never remember any issues or controversies with him, but he really did not do much other than maybe make some kind of occasional generic statement at random safety assemblies, he basically just sat in the security guard room all day (I don't recall any major interactions with students, certainly nothing like an arrest or anything negative).

Quote: Gandler

Its just a local police officer(s) assigned to a school or district. I think most schools have them now. Some larger districts have their own departments which fall directly under the district as opposed to the County or City. Smaller cities just have an appointed cop from the local department. I don't think there is any special training other than standard police qualifications (probably varies by State).

Where I grew up (at least high school, which is all I remember) he was just a local City cop who basically was appointed to hang out at the high school during the school day. I heard a rumor that he had DUI charges and needed a position that did not require driving for a few years from one of the teachers, but I have no clue if this is actually true, though he did just kind of appear about half way through high school, and he was the only one, so either they needed him to be placed somewhere specifically or there was suddenly decided a need for a cop to be present, but only when he was working (which in my city seemed unlikely, pretty much no crime). He was always super chill, and I never remember any issues or controversies with him, but he really did not do much other than maybe make some kind of occasional generic statement at random safety assemblies, he basically just sat in the security guard room all day (I don't recall any major interactions with students, certainly nothing like an arrest or anything negative).

Pretty sad schools have had to go to cops there all the time. In my school the "cop" was the groundskeeper who was a traffic cop mostly at the end of the day to well direct traffic. He was directing it one morning when the gym teacher who did it was a few minutes late and he screwed it all up. We knew where to park but he had us park way back a the end of the lot, 100 yards from where we parked daily. The gym teacher took over and gave us a wave to park like we knew how and did daily.

I think the local cops had to come one time because some graduated students came back and caused a problem or something. But to need a cop daily was unimaginable.

Quote: AZDuffman

Pretty sad schools have had to go to cops there all the time. In my school the "cop" was the groundskeeper who was a traffic cop mostly at the end of the day to well direct traffic. He was directing it one morning when the gym teacher who did it was a few minutes late and he screwed it all up. We knew where to park but he had us park way back a the end of the lot, 100 yards from where we parked daily. The gym teacher took over and gave us a wave to park like we knew how and did daily.

I think the local cops had to come one time because some graduated students came back and caused a problem or something. But to need a cop daily was unimaginable.

Well yes and no, its a self-fulfilling prophesy to some degree. The ACLU is very against police on schools and colleges, and they cite increased crime rates on campuses with increased police presence, but they don't mention that there is an increased police presence because such schools had a crime issue to begin with and are in high crime areas of their location. And, cite the increased crime, and the unease of students by the idea of police as evidence that they (school police) do not work. There will always need to be some security at schools, I guess it comes down to if you think that it is better if it to be police or private security.

But, all of that aside, in today's day and age it is more about mass shootings and terrorism, which are sadly becoming a routine occurrence (and schools are a large target).

I personally don't see how students feel more threatened by actual police than private security or even teachers. In High School I had more negatives interactions with teachers and security being harsh than police (by 100% because I never had an issue with the school cop, granted there was just one and only for at most 50% of my time). I think some people paint police with a broad brush, that they are all bad. Which fine, but when private security takes their place with the same job description, they are just going to feel the same.... It just comes down to not being liked to be told that you are wrong (which in the context of schools is the issue, nobody is being busted for being a drug kingpin in High School, at least I doubt it...).

For example some private schools require a metal detector and baggage screening by private security every time a kid enters the building from the street. Is this a better alternative to just having a cop present? I don't know, I guess people can form their own opinions.

I personally don't have experience with high crime/violence schools, I grew up pretty privileged, in my high school the biggest security scandal was if somebody could not pass the door breathalyzer to enter the dance (where if you failed you were advised to tell the screener you just used mouthwash, so its not accurate, so if you failed you really failed). There was not even fights or anything like that. But, if I was in an unsafe school I have no doubt that I would want police.

Quote: Gandler

For example some private schools require a metal detector and baggage screening by private security every time a kid enters the building from the street. Is this a better alternative to just having a cop present? I don't know, I guess people can form their own opinions.

I personally don't have experience with high crime/violence schools, I grew up pretty privileged, in my high school the biggest security scandal was if somebody could not pass the door breathalyzer to enter the dance (where if you failed you were advised to tell the screener you just used mouthwash, so its not accurate, so if you failed you really failed). There was not even fights or anything like that. But, if I was in an unsafe school I have no doubt that I would want police.

I worked a casino night at a prom for the district one district over from where I went. One district over and 30 years later. They had a metal detector which was a waste of effort for the girls as they could be hiding nothing but I digress. I was chatting with some teacher chaperone there and she said they had "good kids." I thought to myself, 'yeah, that is why the metal detectors and your security officer carrying a Glock 9mm."

There were no issues. Guys at my table said someone was upset someone danced with someone else's date but that is typical high school nonsense. I didn't see it so cannot comment further.

This was a mostly white school in the exurbs. Actually not even exurbs, small town and countryside. And there is the dirty little thing nobody wants to talk about on school violence. Go to an inner city school and it all changes. You need cops because kids are out of control. Schools are more moderate security prisons. Some cannot function without cops.

Mass shootings make the news, but the violence in these places is ignored.

WTF

Woe to the police officer on the scene who doesn't run straight into the school upon arrival. But it's been going that way since Columbine.

That's just another poor result of lack of gun control. Sure cops risk their lives. But the choice to perform hero moves like running minimally prepared directly into a building with an armed person inside is above and beyond the call of duty, "to protect and serve". That's why they give out exceptional valor awards to police who do that.

whereas a trained swat team is something different.