Gay Marriage

Quote: AZDuffman

The entire way the gay movement has used the courts and not the ballot box or legislature to get their way.

The entire way? This is a myth. The fact is that 3 states have legalized gay marriage by popular vote (Washington, Maryland, Maine). And 7 states got it through the legislature (Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Delaware, Illinois, Rhode Island, Minnesota), plus the District of Columbia.

7 + 3 = 10

That’s 10 states, without help from judges.

Quote: reno

It turns out that Judge Jones had been endorsed by traditional marriage defender Rick Santorum! Ha ha!

What's so hilarious about that? All it proves is that Republicans don't have a litmus test for judges.

But I agree, maybe they should!!

Quote: Beethoven

But I agree, maybe they should!!

The first one should be can they read the Constitution and understand it means what it meant when it was written and not fad of the moment.

What gets me is that liberals claim to have all this public support on gay marriage, yet all they do is focus on the (rigged) courts.

Even though I also oppose the legalization of marijuana, I will say this. At least the marijuana crowd is trying to legalize pot the correct way. They're putting initiatives on the ballot and going straight to the voters. The gay marriage zealots are scared to death of doing that.

Quote: Beethoven

focus on the (rigged) courts.

going straight to the voters.

Yep, and voters approved the ban in Oregon

Quote: Beethoven

What gets me is that liberals claim to have all this public support on gay marriage, yet all they do is focus on the (rigged) courts.

Even though I also oppose the legalization of marijuana, I will say this. At least the marijuana crowd is trying to legalize pot the correct way. They're putting initiatives on the ballot and going straight to the voters. The gay marriage zealots are scared to death of doing that.

Three states have legalized gay marriage by popular vote (Washington, Maryland, Maine) and 7 states (Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Delaware, Illinois, Rhode Island, Minnesota plus the District of Columbia) used their legislature-- representative democracy. Surely you're ok with representative democracy! Or should the legislatures be abolished along with the courts?

If Mildred Loving's marriage to a white man had been put up to a popular vote in 1967, the voters would have banned her marriage by a wide margin. (And they'd lock her up, too because in those days interracial marriage was a felony.) Sounds like you'd prefer to amend the U.S. Constitution to prevent the courts from interfering with popular votes.


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Be careful what you wish for:

Quote: reno

Surely you're ok with representative democracy!

Not when the "representatives" don't represent the will of the people.

Quote: reno

Sounds like you'd prefer to amend the U.S. Constitution to prevent the courts from interfering with popular votes.

Funny you say that, because that's exactly what your side keeps doing over and over and over again. You guys don't have any confidence at the ballot box, so you have to get activist judges to thwart the will of the people. How democratic is that?

Quote: reno

If Mildred Loving's marriage to a white man...

The Loving case is totally irrelevant. I've put it under a microscope, and there's not one mention of interracial gay marriage in the decision anywhere. Mildred Loving wanted to marry a man (not a woman), so the entire case was about interracial marriage, NOT interracial gay marriage. Try again.

Quote: chickenman

Yep, and voters approved the ban in Oregon

That is so freakin disgusting. A gay judge ruled in favor of gay marriage??? Gee, who woulda thunk it! *facepalm*

That idiot judge should have recused himself. Can you imagine all the liberal outrage if, say, a Christian judge or a Mormon judge had ruled to uphold the ban????

Quote: Beethoven

Not when the "representatives" don't represent the will of the people.

Are you arguing that the majority of voters in Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Delaware, Illinois, Rhode Island & Minnesota oppose gay marriage? Are you arguing that the politicians in Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Delaware, Illinois, Rhode Island & Minnesota would jeopardize their careers by voting against the will of the people?

Here are the numbers:

The University of New Hampshire Survey Center released a statewide poll taken from April 13–22, 2009 which concluded that 55% of New Hampshire residents supported same-sex marriage, while 39% percent opposed it.

A July 2011 Public Policy Polling survey found that 58% of Vermont voters thought same-sex marriage should be legal, while 33% thought it should be illegal and 9% were not sure.

An August 2011 Marist poll found that 55% of New York State adults support the legalization of same-sex marriage. 36% oppose it, and 9% are unsure.

A March 6, 2011, poll by Lake Research Partners showed that 62% in Delaware favor allowing same-sex couples to form civil unions, while 31% were opposed, and 7% were not sure.

A November 2012 Public Policy Polling survey found that a plurality of voters in the state of Illinois approved of same-sex marriage: 47% of voters were in favor, 42% were opposed, 11% were not sure.

A survey conducted by the Taubman Center for Public Policy at Brown University on February 21–23, 2013, found that 60.4% of Rhode Island voters supported same-sex marriage and 26.1% opposed.

A June 2013 Star Tribune Minnesota poll found that 46% of Minnesotans support legalizing same-sex marriage, while 44% are opposed and 10% remain undecided.

Quote: Beethoven

You guys don't have any confidence at the ballot box, so you have to get activist judges to thwart the will of the people.

In the deep South you're 100% correct.

But what about a traditional red, religious state like Utah? A Salt Lake Tribune poll taken by SurveyUSA from January 10–13, 2014 found that Utah residents are now evenly split on whether same-sex couples in Utah should be allowed to get state-issued marriage licenses — 48% for and 48% against, while 4% were uncertain. The question was "Should same-sex couples in Utah be allowed to get state-issued marriage licenses?", and the margin of error was ± 4.1%. Some 72% (margin of error ± 3.7%) said same-sex couples should be allowed to form civil unions that provide the same legal rights as marriage.

Quote: reno

Are you arguing that the majority of voters...

If your side has such overwhelming public support, then you should have no problem going directly to the voters with ballot initiatives.

The fact of the matter is, the gays lost in California in 2008, but instead of admitting defeat, they whined like spoiled brats and had to go crying to a gay judge to overturn the will of the people.

Quote: reno

But what about a traditional red, religious state like Utah? A Salt Lake Tribune poll taken by SurveyUSA from January 10–13, 2014 found that Utah residents are now evenly split on whether same-sex couples in Utah should be allowed to get state-issued marriage licenses — 48% for and 48% against, while 4% were uncertain.

You're making my point, yet you don't even know it. lol

If you have such strong public support, then your side should stop the nonsense and go straight to the people with ballot initiatives. The gays are too scared to do that though. *shrug*