"Cult of Mary"

Quote: FrGamble

I said that you can never get what Christians receive from prayer by simply meditating.

How would you know.

Now this is funny. I just found out why I'm
told I'm wrong all the time. Christian Apologetics
is at the stage where, if you bring up any subject
from the past that might put them in a bad
light, they tell you it's a lie. If you produce a
source, they tell you that's a lie. The point is
to keep you constantly on the defensive until
you give up and go away.

"Christians have gone to great lengths to develop
a set of arguments defending themselves from
what would otherwise be a damning indictment
of history."

Especially in science. The line now is, Christians
have always been in the lead on new scientific
developments. They even have a list of scientists
they claim they endorsed in the Middle Ages.
If you say this to them, though:

"The Church has never been on the cutting edge
of science -- on the contrary, it has been the one
persecuting scientists. The list of those who earned
the wrath of the Church reads like a Who's Who
of Science: Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes,
Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, even Bertrand Russell."

They will call you a liar and your sources
come from lies. I think I know what that
feels like, lol.

I find that the best approach to use when all someone attacks you with is lies is just to ignore them.

Quote: FrGamble

I find that the best approach to use when all someone attacks you with is lies is just to ignore them.

"They will call you a liar and your sources
come from lies"

Wow, you proved my point with very
few words. Well done. Does that really
work now, though? Just keep saying
'lie lie lie' and eventually people will
forget about it. I don't think so.

100 years ago Rockefeller tried that.
When Ida Tarbell came out with her
scathing truths that the old man was
a ruthless snake, he chose to just
dismiss her as a liar. But it was now
the modern era, she had the power
of the press. She was indeed telling
the truth, and caused him a great
deal of harm.

The Church can no longer wave its
divine hand and dismiss what it
doesn't like as a lie. We tend to
remember things now, and the
power of the press is 1000 times
greater than in Rockefellers time.

I love how political the Church is. I have
relatives visiting Ireland and they found
a family headstone. At the bottom they
plead with the Lady of Dolours, which
is a code name for Mary, to get the
person into heaven. Just like city hall,
you have to go thru an underling to
get the mayors attention.

I don't see what is wrong with asking the mother of the king to intercede on your behalf.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't see what is wrong with asking the mother of the king to intercede on your behalf.

Politics at it's best. The boss is just
too important to deal with you
directly.

Why is it politics and why do you read into that simple statement that the boss is too important to deal with you? Asking mother Mary to intercede for you just seems like common sense doesn't it? When you are asking something even from your earthly father isn't it good to have your mom mention something to him too? It's not necessary of course, but it is helpful, humble, and effective. I think you may be overthinking this and trying too hard to find a way to warp a simple teaching into something controversial.

Quote: FrGamble

Why is it politics and why do you read into that simple statement that the boss is too important to deal with you? Asking mother Mary to intercede for you just seems like common sense doesn't it?

The Church has umpteen saints to pray
to and ask them to ask Jesus for something
on your behalf. How many different names
does Mary have for that very purpose?
Hundreds, at least. Go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titles_of_Mary

Have you ever tried to contact a person with
political power, like a senator or governor or
a congressman directly? You always have to go
thru a series of underlings who will state your
case to the boss. Just like the Church, it's
how politics works.

So are you saying it makes sense and reflects reality or are you criticizing the politics of today? I would like you to think of a more appropriate analogy than politics. Think of your family and extended family. You know who the patriarch of the family is, the one who can make things happen, this might be your dad. However, you might just naturally have more in common with or connect better with your Aunt Mertle. You can go right to your dad and He would love you, but in a human sense you might be more comfortable taking Aunt Mertle with you to talk with him. I really don't see what you are complaining about? Having saints and mother Mary makes God more accessible not less so.