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Biden's Biggest Blunder
| September 29th, 2021 at 10:13:06 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5257 |
Maybe the book I cited in the same post? Covers many of those. Highly recommend. The rest are common knowledge, I can show press reports on the pentagon not knowing how to receive "orders" from Twitter, but its pretty irrelevant, your opinion is not going to change, so I am not going to spend a bunch of time on something that was originally a offshoot comment..... Trump brags about ignoring advisors, this should not be a contested issue.... |
| September 29th, 2021 at 10:14:58 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 137 Posts: 21195 |
You sound like the liberals defending the disaster that is Obamacare blaming it on a "Republican Plan." NO, we should not have stayed. Biden should have made sure we executed a competent withdraw. No more reason to stay there than there was in South Vietnam. The good that has come out of it is Biden is seen as a fool before he really screws something big up. Barring a 9/11 style attack he has made himself a lame duck. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength |
| September 29th, 2021 at 11:01:00 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5257 |
Yes, we should have maintained a permanent presence there. I feel the same about Vietnam. That was also a sad pullout. It worked perfect in Korea. Some countries just require ongoing security. If we pulled out of Korea, would the North storm the South? I don't know, but I don't want to find out. Sometimes it's best to leave well-enough alone. This could have been the case in Vietnam, if there was not a political lack of will to keep it ongoing, and again in Afganistan. I am not defending anything, both recent Presidents failed miserably in this issue with even thinking about pulling out. Biden gets the most blame, as I have conceded countless times. |
| September 29th, 2021 at 12:12:32 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 137 Posts: 21195 |
Let them provide their own security. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength |
| September 29th, 2021 at 3:09:18 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5257 |
They can't and were simply not ready as we saw in Vietnam, and now Afghanistan. And, Korea would have been similar if we pulled out. People love to point to the failure in Vietnam (which was caused by the withdrawal), but never mention how Korea was a success (Vietnam and Afghanistan could have been the same if we stayed). Its not a quick process, like in Korea, it took two generations for them to modernize their military to a standard, and they still need help. |
| September 29th, 2021 at 3:16:56 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 137 Posts: 21195 |
And nothing was lost by South Vietnam ceasing to exist. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength |
| September 29th, 2021 at 4:01:40 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5257 |
It was, we lost accsess and they lost freedom. South Vietnam could have been a cultural hub blending western values and technology innovation, like South Korea, now its basically a smaller and less successful China.... Not as bad as North Korea (low bar), but not good either... |
| September 29th, 2021 at 4:46:37 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 137 Posts: 21195 |
Maybe it could have been a Tiger, but we cannot just occupy places over and over. They really did not have much freedom in the first place. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength |
| September 29th, 2021 at 5:13:01 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5257 |
In both cases they have virtually none now. I know I don't need to explain communism to you, you know how Vietnam turned out to those who live there. But, Afghanistan is, in many ways even worse. Female rights vanished within a week, along with speech, expression, music, etc..... Like an instant shift from an open and free society to theocracy (almost literally) overnight. Afghanistan was not perfect with American presence, but it was the best it has been in history, now that is gone. I am not a fan of religion (not a secret), but the religion that I find to be the most dangerous in the modern world is Islam. When countries are allowed to become theocracies (especially Islamic ones), it tends to be very bad for the people living there and the world (they tend to be fine with harboring extremists if they align with their religion which bleeds into other countries). And, no (I should not need to say this), but this does not mean Muslims as people are bad, but Islam (the ideology) is a religion that taken to the extreme breeds issues (as do all religions, but Islam is particularly dangerous because of its teachings and its finality). |
| September 29th, 2021 at 6:43:20 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
Things turned out extremely well in Vietnam. They are communist in name only. They actually have one of the largest free markets in the world. "An authoritarian communist party controls Vietnam. It's true. But its founding ideology appears all but gone from the hearts of Vietnam's people. Vietnam, in fact, may actually be one of the most pro-capitalist countries on Earth. Almost all Vietnamese people — 95% of them — now support capitalism, according to the Pew Research Center" Vietnam is one of the most tourist visited countries in Southeast Asia. Almost 20 million people a year visit Vietnam. They have wonderful food, wonderful hotels and tourist attractions, the people are very friendly and outgoing. Anthony Bourdain loved Vietnam and very much wanted to live there. They may have a communist government but they are one of the most capitalistic countries in the world. To the Vietnamese the Vietnam War is ancient history. It happened generations ago and they hold no grudges towards Americans. In fact they love Americans now. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |