Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

But do you know what is logically wrong with the above?

Nothing. Ask a Sophist if you don't believe me.

Quote: FrGamble

Who is more assigning a supernatural cause? I am proposing a logically necessary being based on our observations and experience. You are proposing an eternal material universe that has no beginning or cause for its existence. That is not just supernatural but completely against common sense and experience.

My actual position does not assign any supernatural cause. My position is nothing has ever resolved to being from a supernatural cause so far.

And that as we uncover more information, 100 percent will continue not to resolve to being from a supernatural cause. It's a high claim, but I'll stick with it. Serving me well so far.

You are claiming that something exists without a cause, you don't get more supernatural than that. In fact we are claiming related things except I don't believe, because of what we know about science and logic, that material things can be without a beginning. There can also not be a real infinite regress. So your position is self-contradictory. You cannot say that nothing has ever resolved to being from a supernatural cause when how you explain the universe as being eternal is claiming it is itself supernatural without a cause.

Also your position is wrong, at least in the supernatural field. There have been countless people who have been restored to mental health without drugs simply by talking, sharing life, and by prayer or meditation. The cause of this healing is not material but much closer related to the supernatural area of our thoughts and souls.

Quote: Nareed

Nothing. Ask a Sophist if you don't believe me.

Everything that exists is made up of atoms.
Atoms are not made up of atoms.
Therefore atoms don't exist.

The first premise does not relate to the second. The structure of your argument is:
A is B
B is not B
so B is not A

This doesn't follow and is incorrect. Logic follows strict rules to avoid the type of sophist like argument you think happens all the time and that you tried to pull over on us.

Quote: rxwine

100 percent will continue not to resolve to being from a supernatural cause. .

The Church knew this, it's why they
were so down on science for so long.
Nothing beats the supernatural better
than facts.

Quote: Evenbob

The Church knew this, it's why they
were so down on science for so long.
Nothing beats the supernatural better
than facts.

Nothing beats Evenbob for false facts and untrue myths that he knows are historically wrong.

Quote: FrGamble

Nothing beats Evenbob for false facts and untrue myths that he knows are historically wrong.

I keep forgetting the stance of the Vatican
now is they have been the champions of
science throughout history. Just like the
Inquisitions were a fun exercise and
have been blown all out of proportion by
the Protestants.

Quote: FrGamble

The first premise does not relate to the second.

So? Now sophistry isn't valid?

Did I not prove the universe does not exist because it exists and is made of atoms?

Quote: Nareed

So? Now sophistry isn't valid?

Sophistry is not valid, never really was.

Quote:

Did I not prove the universe does not exist because it exists and is made of atoms?

Nope you really didn't prove anything, but it sounded good and convincing. Unlike with sophistry you cannot make Logic say whatever you want.

Quote: FrGamble

Sophistry is not valid, never really was.

That's too bad for you and your side.