Original Sin?

Quote: rxwine

Basicially, they've retreated back to the Big Bang.

I had to LOL at that one. They're
making their last stand at the BB,
they can't go back any farther.
Or so they think.

Being religious would drive me
nuts, the continuous looking for
a god who isn't there. Oh, they
say they 'found' one, but they're
not very convincing about it. If
I ever found a god, I'd keep my
mouth shut about it.

Quote: Nareed

The universe as the sum total of all that exists, is categorically different from all things that exist.

So it is greater than its parts? If every piece of the universe needs a cause it would seem to follow that the collection of all these things we call the universe needs a cause.

Quote: Evenbob

I.E. you need a cause to explain your
god theory, so you make blanket
statements and cover everything with
that blanket.

The universe has been here forever,
we're always in the eternal moment.

No, just stating a fact that things require causes and are contingent. Do you doubt that? Please tell me have you ever seen anything in your life that did not have a cause for its existence or was dependent on something or someone else? If you have never seen anything that is eternal then why in the world would you assume without any evidence or reason to think that the universe is eternal?

Quote: FrGamble

the collection of all these things we call the universe needs a cause.

Catholics should get rid of the crucifix
and wear one of these around their
necks instead:

Quote: rxwine

But the spritualists/religionists(?) assign divine causes when they don't see an obvious answer. That's their standard operating procedure. And all they can do is retreat retreat and retreat when we uncover more information. Basicially, they've retreated back to the Big Bang.

Not at all. You are grasping at straws and creating straw men here. You talk about retreat as if there was a war, but there is not. Religion is not trying to assign divine causes to natural observable phenomenon. When it does it is rightly corrected. Also science does not try to assign natural causes to obvious spiritual realities like the cause that began the universe.

Please also remember that the Big Bang theory's implication is what religion has held all along. Now science has found its way to us by carefully examining and observing the evidence. It is not a retreat, religion welcomes science to the knowledge they have always had without such strong confirmation.

Quote: FrGamble

So it is greater than its parts? If every piece of the universe needs a cause it would seem to follow that the collection of all these things we call the universe needs a cause.

No.

You know the old joke, "I don't trust atoms. they make up everything!" But atoms are not made of atoms, are they?

It is pretty obvious when Evenbob has no answer.

Quote: Nareed

No.

You know the old joke, "I don't trust atoms. they make up everything!" But atoms are not made of atoms, are they?

From what I've read they are made up of an amazing amount of empty space. I find that so fascinating.

Quote: FrGamble

Not at all. You are grasping at straws and creating straw men here. You talk about retreat as if there was a war, but there is not. Religion is not trying to assign divine causes to natural observable phenomenon.

You'd the world a lot of good if you were to preach this to your US Protestant brethren.

Quote:

Please also remember that the Big Bang theory's implication is what religion has held all along.

No, that was a story by Isaac Asimov. The lead character is inspired and says "In the beginning, 13.8 billion years ago," but his scribe and brother cuts him off and tells him they only have papyrus to cover six days.

Damn. That could have used a spoiler alert....

Quote:

Now science has found its way to us by carefully examining and observing the evidence. It is not a retreat, religion welcomes science to the knowledge they have always had without such strong confirmation.

That's not cultural appropriation. more like cultural grand larceny with intent to deceive.

Quote: FrGamble

If you have never seen anything that is eternal

We see eternity every minute of the
day, we live in the eternal moment.
We can't act or think or do anything
in the past or the future. All we have
is our constant link to the present
eternal moment. Eternity isn't some
other place or some other dimension,
eternity is right now.