Science and God

Just the other day on September 19th the hardened blood of a early century martyr and bishop, Saint Janarius, liquefied as it does every September 19th on his feast day. Pretty miraculous I would say. You can go to Naples to watch it happen yourself if you are curious.

Quote: FrGamble

Just the other day on September 19th the hardened blood of a early century martyr and bishop, Saint Janarius, liquefied as it does every September 19th on his feast day. Pretty miraculous I would say. You can go to Naples to watch it happen yourself if you are curious.

Can I take a sample and find out what the local church has been passing off as blood?

In the second place, too many people have replicated this particular miracle using materials known since ancient times. But in the first place, why would an all-powerful deity engage in parlor tricks?

Quote: Nareed

Can I take a sample and find out what the local church has been passing off as blood?

In the second place, too many people have replicated this particular miracle using materials known since ancient times. But in the first place, why would an all-powerful deity engage in parlor tricks?

You can examine it, many people have and there is no ancient material that just happens to liquefy on a certain date every year. The Almighty allows this miracle in particular to bless the city of Naples (which needs all the blessings it can get) and to show the supernatural intercession of the saints.

Quote: FrGamble

The Almighty allows this miracle in particular

There is no almighty that allows anything,
you're living in fantasy land. You have to
get rid of your 12th century way of seeing
the world, it's very self destructive. It gets
in the way of seeing reality for what it is.

Quote: FrGamble

You can examine it,

Sure you can:

http://www.cicap.org/n/articolo.php?id=101014#introduction

But that isn't the only time it happens.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Januarius#Blood

Quote:

The liquefaction sometimes takes place almost immediately, but can take hours or even days. Records kept at the Duomo tell that on rare occasions the contents fail to liquefy, are found already liquefied when the ampoules are taken from the safe, or liquefy outside the usual dates.

There are other examples on the page of it liquefying, and not.

Quote: Nareed

Sure you can:

http://www.cicap.org/n/articolo.php?id=101014#introduction

"At present however, given that the phenomenon has been replicated, it would be rather too naive to consider it irreproducible or unexplainable."

Science wins again, how totally expected.

Quote: Evenbob

"At present however, given that the phenomenon has been replicated, it would be rather too naive to consider it irreproducible or unexplainable."

Science wins again, how totally expected.

I admire your faith in science and willingness to take inconclusive results to mean what you want it to mean. I guess you and I are in similar boats in regards to this. That is an excellent article that Nareed posted and seemingly very fair. I hope that the tests the author mentions at the end are conducted so science can indeed show that it is blood that unexplainable liquefies and coagulates again and again every year.

Quote: FrGamble

I hope that the tests the author mentions at the end are conducted so science can indeed show that it is blood that unexplainable liquefies and coagulates again and again every year.

Fat chance, until the church allows samples to be taken.

But even were that to happen, and the results were "NOT BLOOD," lots of Catholics would keep venerating it the way they idolize the Holy Sheet at Turin.

Quote: Nareed

the Holy Sheet at Turin.

I chuckled at this. First thinking of a venerated bed sheet. Then the slang of "sheet".

Would they really make a shrine to a holy turd.