In decline.

Quote: petroglyph

Was it wrong for the Uruguayan crash survivors to eat human flesh to survive then ?

No, but the survivors didn't kill anyone. All the dead died in the crash.

Quote: Evenbob

...Nature and the universe have no opinion
on crime, I'm afraid. You could rape 10
women a day and nature or the universe
wouldn't even notice, let alone care. Nor
would the animal kingdom. It's humans
who decide what's right and what's wrong,
so we can productively live in society.

There is a saying " religion was invented so the poor don't eat the rich".

In some cultures rape is ok.

In some ancient civilizations it was a cultural thing to eat members of your family or those you respected. http://knowledgenuts.com/2013/10/28/the-culture-that-still-practices-cannibalism/

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/47077293/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/cannibalism-rare-today-it-still-exists/#.VcvQKPlViko

Today in the Congo, warlords kill and eat victims as a means of intimidation

I agree that "Nature and the universe have no opinion on crime". Humans can't even agree on what is crime. Just those in charge pointing fingers at who it is ok to kill and who not.

It's all about control.

Quote: Nareed

No, but the survivors didn't kill anyone. All the dead died in the crash.

I was looking for clarification that killing and eating were two different "offenses".

Quote:

It was and is very wrong to kill and eat an innocent human even if they were taught and thought it was right because of the extraordinary and dire circumstances

I believe the world consensus was for the survivors, and I agree, fwiw.

I worked next to some hot dog plants in Portland and watched dump truck loads of mystery meat go into the plant. On a purely objective basis it is hard to see where tossing in a Jimmy Hoffa or two would be much worse?

Quote: petroglyph

There is a saying " religion was invented so the poor don't eat the rich".

Truth, that. There have always been really
smart people, but lots of really stupid
people too. The smart have to control
the dumb and religion does that very
well.

Quote: Evenbob

If you believe you can
offend god with your thoughts and actions,
90% of their work is done.

I think you persist in your faulty definition of sin to avoid coming to grips with what it truly means. I know you will throw out the Webster's definition of sin but I need to tell you that it doesn't apply. Sin is just the realization that we as human beings struggle to do what is right and good and yet we want to. It is our failure to be the people we want to be. This is not to fall into despair, it is the human condition and whether you try to solve this fundamental human dilemma with science, philosophy, religion, or chose to ignore it - we are all trying to answer the question and mystery of sin.

Quote:

When a scientist looks at it with a scientific method,
he's doesn't see any proof of sin existing.

Disregarding the absurdity of a scientist looking for sin and judging religion all the scientist would have to do is open his or her eyes. Sin is all around us, again it is the human condition of falling short to live up to what we want to. It is also societal sins that set up those in poverty to struggle, steal, and rob. It is what we have done to the environment and the earth we live on. It's on the daily news and the front page of every newspaper. Human beings struggling and striving, the result of sin.

Quote:

It's true even if you aren't. If you rape 10 women,
nature won't punish you. No outside natural
force will even notice or care. Even your dog won't
care. Sociopaths know this instinctively.

Is this what atheistic morality boils down to?!?!? Just when I had started to think there were some intelligent good atheists you throw this disgusting thought around. Sociopaths know this instinctively and atheists come to it by thinking hard about it?! Absolute nonsense and if I was an atheist I would be insulted. Thank God I am not.

Quote:

Wrong to you because that's what you've been
taught.

So the Holocaust was not wrong because that is what they were taught? I refuse to share the oxygen with someone who thinks this way about morality, I'm worried whatever it is killing your brain cells will infect me.

I'm still waiting to see if you have proof for the following statement about scientific proof being the only type of proof or if it is just your speculation or opinion:

Quote: Evenbob

That's the only kind of proof there is.
Anything else is just opinion or speculation.
You know that.

Quote: FrGamble

we are all trying to answer the question and mystery of sin.

Why would it be a mystery? If a god created
everything, including us, why wouldn't he
want to be thanked for that with us behaving
in a reasonable fashion. Doesn't seem too
much to ask. Mystery solved. Why are you
making it so difficult. Read your own catechism
once in awhile.

Quote: FrGamble

. Sin is all around us

You can talk yourself into anything.

Quote: FrGamble

Sociopaths know this instinctively and atheists come to it by thinking hard about it?!

No hard thinking on my part. Just observation.

Quote: FrGamble

So the Holocaust was not wrong because that is what they were taught?

It was wrong by society's standards. When your god killed
all the first born male children in Egypt, was that wrong?

Quote: FrGamble

I'm still waiting to see if you have proof for the following statement about scientific proof being the only type of proof or if it is just your speculation or opinion:

You mean, there is no scientific proof that sin
exists, so that in itself is proof of it's existence.
That's your argument, you know. The more science
can't prove something, the more likelihood there
is of it's existence.

(the Bible is true because it says so in the Bible)

Quote: Evenbob

Why would it be a mystery? If a god created
everything, including us, why wouldn't he
want to be thanked for that with us behaving
in a reasonable fashion. Doesn't seem too
much to ask. Mystery solved. Why are you
making it so difficult. Read your own catechism
once in awhile.

You obviously don't understand the mystery of sin. Haven't you proved to yourself by now or hasn't humanity proved to you that just even behaving in a reasonable fashion is something we can't do all the time. God doesn't want your salvation based on what you do or don't do, you can't earn your salvation like some kind of game. We have to accept that we are loved in our imperfections and that all people are loved in theirs. Do that my friend and you will be close to Christianity and to understanding the catechism.

Quote:

No hard thinking on my part. Just observation.

I agree with the first part.

Quote:

It was wrong by society's standards. When your god killed
all the first born male children in Egypt, was that wrong?

Was it wrong when we went to war with Germany because of what they were doing to the Jews?

Have I ever once made the argument you diagram in your circular reasoning pic? No. Have I ever said that no scientific proof of sin is proof of its existence. No. You are the one making a circular argument that looks like this.

There is no God because there is no scientific proof.
- Why can there be no God if there is no scientific proof?

Because the only knowledge we have is based on scientific proof, everything else is just speculation or opinion.
- How can you prove this statement scientifically?

Because science is the only source of knowledge.