Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

Sex has nothing to do with love,
and the love of the Church has
nothing to do with the textbook
definition of the word.

Here is a good definition I like: To love is to will the good of the other.

Quote: FrGamble

What if the father knew that the death of his son would save the whole world?

If he didn't die, what sacrifice was there?

Is this what saved looks like?

Okay. I realize that the somewhat variable time we term "The Dark Ages" were merely a localized reversion to barbarianism and a breakdown in existing structures. Its clear that The Middle East had great books, public street lighting, sewers, large and fairly safe bazars while Western Europe and England were lands of unsafe roads, filthy cities and, it seems, filthy people.

But I wonder just how much of this is true.

Did the church officially ban or actively discourage bathing and the washing of clothes?

Since it was monks who were brewers and church attendance on Sunday and Wednesday was aided by the beer that would be served afterwards, it would seem that bathing and laundering of clothes really could not be an abandoned practice.

So any Twelfth Century sources on this issue come to mind, Padre?

Quote: Fleastiff

Actually its more a question of do you think someone who has seen a UFO is lying? Each are talking about a personal experience that the listener knows is not real but is nevertheless a strongly held belief system. So if you have seen a UFO or just hold a strong belief about them in which you accept their existence and want to see one, it makes no difference in your truthfulness. Its similar to a belief in Leprechauns and other 'wee people' standing under a forest-floor mushroom with their pots of gold. Of course you don't believe in their existence but that does not mean you need argue with those who do. It is particularly unwise to argue with one of those True Believers if it happens to be Saint Patrick's Day and the True Believer is the one paying for all that Guinness you are swilling.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a19421807/video-shows-us-navy-run-in-with-ufo/

Quote: petroglyph

If he didn't die, what sacrifice was there?

Xtionity works well within the
framework of the myth. Step
outside the myth and into the
real world and it falls apart.

The myth demands you suspend
your disbelief over and over and
over. This is why Xtion groups are
so clannish. They fare far better
if they socialize only with people in their
clan, that way they won't be confused
by the real worlds views.

When you step outside the clans
boundaries, like FrG has done here,
you can see his constant confusion
and befuddlement at our not not
taking what he considers 'truth'
seriously. He's always scratching his
head, puzzled why we just can't seem
to 'get it'.

This is because his 'truth' only exists
within the narrow boundaries of the
myth. Step outside that and the air
is suddenly very thin indeed.

Truth by definition exists everywhere and is invincible. I don't know exactly how you are reading our conversation but believe me I am not scratching my head or very puzzled by your objections and questions. Most I have heard from my own parishioners or other friends. We discuss this stuff over and over in seminary. I hate to bust your bubble but these questions you have are not new.

Quote: FrGamble

Truth by definition exists everywhere and is invincible. I don't know exactly how you are reading our conversation but believe me I am not scratching my head or very puzzled by your objections and questions. Most I have heard from my own parishioners or other friends. We discuss this stuff over and over in seminary. I hate to bust your bubble but these questions you have are not new.

If truth is everywhere, than so are lies -- as, one cannot be defined without knowledge of the other

Quote: Evenbob

Xtionity works well within the
framework of the myth. Step
outside the myth and into the
real world and it falls apart.

So, it's like a board game? Trying to force game rules on non players sounds frustrating. I would have gotten so killed when they were in power, but seeing a family member tortured and crippled, would be a strong motivator to acquire faith.

Quote:

The myth demands you suspend
your disbelief over and over and
over. This is why Xtion groups are
so clannish. They fare far better
if they socialize only with people in their
clan, that way they won't be confused
by the real worlds views.

This part I have gotten to witness. The sect needed a human sacrifice, so the daughter that wouldn't stay with the wife/child abuser is shunned from the group. But those that stay receive benefits from longevity within the group, jobs, promotions, business etc. It's very prejudicial, but they don't see it, or pretend it is righteous. Never having to own up to the harm that they do.

Quote:

When you step outside the clans
boundaries, like FrG has done here,
you can see his constant confusion
and befuddlement at our not not
taking what he considers 'truth'
seriously. He's always scratching his
head, puzzled why we just can't seem
to 'get it'.

We are all guilty to some degree of creating our own reality. I'm glad it's not me trying to defend the Catholic position, especially when the goalposts have moved so many times. On top of that, the Pope changing long held doctrine, must be like trying to juggle with cats.

Quote: FrGamble

I hate to bust your bubble but these questions you have are not new.

Yet you seem so puzzled all
the time. Bob, where do you
find this stuff? Bob, where
are getting these links from.
Bob, I've never seen anybody
so misinformed. Bob, are you
making this stuff up as you
go along?

Here is a typical quote from
you about me:

"I do not understand you. You are so wrong and dangerously so. It is unbelievable you think that."

You've said similar things to
me scores of times. It seems
to confuse and baffle you
that your 'truth' doesn't make
immediate sense to somebody
not on the inside of your religion.
I have never been indoctrinated,
I can still think for myself, that's
the issue.

Quote: petroglyph

This part I have gotten to witness. The sect needed a human sacrifice, .

Of course, the sects rules have
to be upheld. I know of several
people who were shunned to
the back row for getting a
divorce. They were kicked off
the church board and their
pew in front was taken from
them. They ended up leaving
the church entirely, heartbroken.
It's a charming religion..