Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

Of course, the sects rules have
to be upheld. I know of several
people who were shunned to
the back row for getting a
divorce. They were kicked off
the church board and their
pew in front was taken from
them. They ended up leaving
the church entirely, heartbroken.
It's a charming religion..

It seems to happen more often to poor women, than generous benefactors. Maybe just coincidence?

Petro, Christianity is a religion that does best outside of its own group. In fact the worst times in Christianity's history have always been when it became worldly and less about Jesus and others and more about greed and power. The times of the Church's greatest growth were times where the simple message of God's love through Jesus Christ came to set us free from sin and death. He shows us a new way to live in loving God and others.

No one group, secular or religious, has a monopoly on group think and the awful ostrichization you describe in your post. The good thing about Christianity is that if you do this type of evil you have to constantly fight against the true teaching of Christ. Secular organizations can actually write a policy of alienation and mistreatment into their rules and they have no New Testament to stop them.

I'm glad you recognize how often the goalposts are moved on me. It is laughable how many angles and attempts Evenbob tries and quickly abandons before he finds something he thinks has traction. It is kind of endearing in that I've discovered all kinds of things he will say or when he will ignore a question, or drop a line of reasoning - it all means he's defeated but is too proud to admit when he's wrong. I think it is his own little code to me admitting what he is unable to say.

Quote: FrGamble

Petro, Christianity is a religion that does best outside of its own group..

WOW! Are you really going to
try and sell that? Your biggest
growth came from forcing others
to join your group. Things like
the Crusades and the Inquisitions
ring any bells? Xtionity has always
been intolerant of any group
outside their own. Look what they
did in the Americas's. The Vatican
burned the written records of
entire peoples who had pagan
religions and forced Xtionity on
them. Intolerance in your Church's
middle name.

Bob, the Crusades and Inqisitions had nothing to do with forcing people to be Christian. You know this. It was about defending the Holy Land and regulating abuses caused by the state using religion as a weapon. The Inqisitions are good examples of the harm that occurs when religion is too caught up with power and worldly things. The greatest growth in the Church did not happen in these times, but in the early Church and anytime the Church was poor, spiritual, charitable; usually when a great saint was around to call us to conversion.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, the Crusades and Inqisitions had nothing to do with forcing people to be Christian.

From The Crusades, by Bernard Hamilton:
"Millions of Jews from the fourth century CE until the 20th Century were forced to “kiss the sword” of Christ, or be put to death by that sword. Therefore, many, many Jews died at the hands of Christians in the name of Jesus. Fortunately, many Jews managed to survive. They survived by lying―they converted, but secretly remained Jews. The Christian Church realized what was happening and in 1492, the Spanish Inquisition tried to purge the country of these “secret” Jews, called Marranos."

ROME, May 23 — Pope Benedict XVI tried Wednesday to quell anger in South America over his recent comments about the conversion of native populations, conceding that “unjustifiable crimes” were committed in the conquest of the continent 500 years ago.
The pope told a weekly audience here in Italian that it was “not possible to forget the suffering and the injustices inflicted by colonizers against the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled.” https://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/world/americas/24pope.html

But you just keep keep spewing
the Vatican's rewrite of history,
don't you.

I can't tell if you actually think some out of context passage with no real reference attached to it is actually something you believe? If it is, I feel bad for you. Certainly you have read his book on the Crusades. Hopefully you have read a few others. You put this mythical story out there as if it defines the Crusades. You know there were many, as there were many Inqisitions?

Thanks for the article about Pope Francis. Did you think that the history of the crusades or the inquisitions were without errors or abuses?

Quote: FrGamble

IDid you think that the history of the crusades or the inquisitions were without errors or abuses?

We discussed this to death a few
years ago. What's the point of
hearing you repeat what you've
been told to say by your employers
yet again.

This is always a dead giveaway that you don't want to have a real conversation about something because you know you are wrong. It is ironic because I think you are aware of how one sided and prejudiced your take is so to avoid this you level against me what really applies to yourself. All I'm asking is we look at these historical events with the help of real historians to get a more realistic picture than the myths you are holding onto.

Quote: FrGamble

This is always a dead giveaway that you don't want to have a real conversation
.

It's a giveaway that we've had this conversation
umpteen times and you always say exactly
the same things. Why would I want to
hear them all again. You always act like
we just started talking last week. We
started in 2011 on WoV and have been
talking almost daily here since 2014.

FrG, I recently visited the Air Force Academy where their most iconic building is the church. Separate floors for Catholics and Protestants. In the Catholic church floor that Friday morning I was the only one there except for somebody playing beautiful music on the pipe organ. I sat and listened for a while until she finished a piece. Then I turned around (the organ was in the back), turned around, and enthusiastically applauded as the woman playing was outstanding and I love a good church pipe organ. The organist then looked at me as if I had just insulted the Virgin Mary. Is it bad etiquette to applaud in a Catholic church? If so, how much time in purgatory do I get?

Sorry the images are rotated incorrectly.



On another topic, EB once complained about all the morbid crucifixes* in Catholic churches. I couldn't find nary a one in here.



* What is the plural of crucifix?