Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

There is NO evidence that denies the existence of God. .

This is what you say to a child, to get
him to scratch his head is puzzlement.
Gee whiz, Fr Wally is right, there IS
no evidence that god doesn't exist.
In my unformed childlike mind, this
means there must be a god because
of the lack of evidence that there isn't
one.

There are even adults dumb enough to
fall for this. We call them suckers and
chumps.

Quote: FrGamble

and bad services and prayers.

I will say it.

I can't speak to Christian prayers, as I know none, but 99% Jewish prayers can be summarized thus: "Thank Jehovah for everything and kiss his ass." The other 1% is reserved for the so-called high holidays, and they can be summarized as "Beg Jehovah for forgiveness and kiss his ass."

I would be very surprised if Christian prayers weren't like that, perhaps with a higher percentage of the latter type.

Overall this is how you'd address someone you're terrified of, not someone who loves you.

Which is completely coherent with how people dealt with their gods in ancient times. What do you think the Parthenon, the Pantheon, Karnack Temple, etc. are if not adulation to the gods in order to appease them?(*) What were the sacrifices and offerings for? We don't make animal sacrifices anymore, and Jews no longer make offerings (Christians definitely do), or at least not too often, but essentially the lyrics changed while the song remained the same.

What made Judaism different from most other ancient religions was the law code contained in the Torah, and later extended in other not-quite-holy books like the Talmud. Christianity extended this and added a comprehensive philosophical system. Otherwise, modern Jews and Christians pray exactly the same way dirty, naked desert savages did since before they moved into farms and cities.


(*) Some of these are also the ruler showing off to the elites.

Quote: Nareed

Now, if a god can exist without infinite regress, etc., then so can the universe.

This is so, regardless of what your beliefs about the matter are, or what your heart tells you in between beats.

My heart skips a beat every time you fail to grasp the essential point and go back to childish statements. If you are going to understand why there cannot be an infinite regress please remember the difference between contingent beings and non-contingent beings. This should clear up your misconception.

Quote: Nareed

There is no evidence that denies the existence of unicorns, or Big Foot, or for that matter astrology. What's your point?

There is evidence that denies the existence of unicorns and astrology and the Easter Bunny. Where is the historical record of a unicorn, can you show me a fossil. Is there anything but a grainy photo of Big Foot? Has astrology every predicted or discovered anything? Can the Easter Bunny be a logical possibility?

I can show the historical record of Jesus of Nazareth and we can all testify to the difference He has made in human history. There are thousands of pieces of evidence unexplained and real that point to either a supernatural miracle of God or His life changing and transforming power in the lives of human beings. The insights that Christ shows us about the human person hold as true today as when they were written and not only is God a logical possibility, He is an essential requirement for the existence of anything.

Quote:

Let me illustrate your complex syllogism in translation:

All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Therefore Socrates is a unicorn.

You seem to be saying this:

There are no unicorns.
There is no hard mathematical proof there is no unicorns.
Therefore there is no God.

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No, I didn't.

See, if I had doubts about the validity of evolution, or supernovas, or dark matter, or any of literally millions of other subjects, I could simply look at the evidence and make an informed judgment for myself. No biologist, astronomer or physicist ever told me "Can you prove evolution/dark matter/quantum effects are not real?"

But no biologist, astronomer, or physicist worth his or her salt would ever in a million years tell you that because of these things there is no God. The existence of God, much like who you choose to love is not something you can just discover in a lab or observe. It is too important and complex for that. You need to engage the higher powers of our minds and metaphorically of course, our hearts.

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But any doubts about religion elicited exactly nothing. Not very little, not very vague and scant evidence. Nothing. Zero. NO evidence at all. None.

Really, nothing? Re-examine your heart and look back as a kid before these healthy and good questions came into your mind. Before instead of seriously addressing and exploring the so called evidence of contradictions and boredom, which you pointed out, you decided to abandon your faith; was there nothing that elicited from you a feeling of shalom?

If you can't get your god to speak for himself, he might as well not exist. I'm given up on asking him to do some other demonstration. That's obviously not happening.

So, work on that. Thanks.

Quote: FrGamble

There is evidence that denies the existence of unicorns and astrology and the Easter Bunny. Where is the historical record of a unicorn, can you show me a fossil. Is there anything but a grainy photo of Big Foot? Has astrology every predicted or discovered anything? Can the Easter Bunny be a logical possibility?"

All you claim here is that there is no evidence for unicorns, not that there aren't any. You cannot find evidence that unicorns do not exist or have ever existed.

Think about this: does anyone know all the dinosaurs that existed? The answer is very likely "no." Why? Because very few dead animals ever fossilize. It would be an incredible stroke of luck if at least one dinosaur of each species left a fossil behind.

So there are no unicorn fossils because none happened to fossilize, That doesn't prove no unicorns ever existed.

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I can show the historical record of Jesus of Nazareth and we can all testify to the difference He has made in human history.

Yes. But the real difference was made by a guy named Constantine.

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There are thousands of pieces of evidence unexplained and real that point to

A lack of an explanation. Nothing more.

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Really, nothing?

Absolutely nothing.

Quote:

Re-examine your heart and look back as a kid before these healthy and good questions came into your mind. Before instead of seriously addressing and exploring the so called evidence of contradictions and boredom, which you pointed out, you decided to abandon your faith; was there nothing that elicited from you a feeling of shalom?

Not one damn thing.

Quote: Nareed

Yes. But the real difference was made by a guy named Constantine.
.

Conatantine and Paul. Forensic evidence is
showing most of the NT was written by Paul
and followers of Paul. He took the kernel that
was Jesus message, and invented a whole
religion around it. All the supernatural nonsense
was made up by Paul, not unlike how you
would write a screenplay.

Quote: Nareed

All you claim here is that there is no evidence for unicorns, not that there aren't any. You cannot find evidence that unicorns do not exist or have ever existed.

Think about this: does anyone know all the dinosaurs that existed? The answer is very likely "no." Why? Because very few dead animals ever fossilize. It would be an incredible stroke of luck if at least one dinosaur of each species left a fossil behind.

So there are no unicorn fossils because none happened to fossilize, That doesn't prove no unicorns ever existed.

Good point. I am not saying that I would be stupid enough to think that there is absolutely no possibility of the existence of unicorns. That would make me an a-unicornist and it wouldn't be logical. I instead take the position that unlike Christianity, there is not any evidence that supports the existence of unicorns and since they are not logically and philosophically necessary for the existence of all things, being contingent beings and such, I do not believe they exist.

Quote: FrGamble

I instead take the position that unlike Christianity, there is not any evidence that supports the existence of unicorns

There is as much evidence for any deity as there is for unicorns.

With one difference: it would be possible for a horse-like creature with one horn to evolve if that conferred some evolutionary advantage.

Quote: Nareed

There is as much evidence for any deity as there is for unicorns.

If he had real evidence, he'd smack us over the head with it, just like we would do if we wanted to prove something.

How long are you going to believe someone lives in a mansion and drives expensive cars if the person never shows you anything?

And he puts us in the position of trying to prove he doesn't have the cars or mansion as if that matters because he can't show us anything

That's my current analogy.