Simple question?

Quote: Evenbob

Then why haven't you presented it?
This is getting awfully boring, you
claiming there is abundant evidence
and then never presenting it.

I'm sorry, is the historical existence of the person of Jesus Christ really in doubt for you? Don't let me get in the way of you looking for such evidence yourself but I don't think we need to provide that for something that all serious students of history do not doubt.

Here might be a place to start:
The Evidence For Jesus
"Even the most critical historian can confidently assert that a Jew named Jesus worked as a teacher and wonder-worker in Palestine during the reign of Tiberius, was executed by crucifixion under the prefect Pontius Pilate and continued to have followers after his death."

Quote: FrGamble

Just dead ones apparently.

Bye "horse or unicorn" I meant either living, dead, zombie, etc.

Quote:

No, seriously we have covered many times that the number of people who believe something does not make it true, so please refrain in the future from attributing this to me.

then stop bringing it up as evidence. That's what you do every single time you talk about how many people believe in Christianity or how long it has lasted. That only tells us it has been popular for a very long time in a rather widespread area. Nothing more. It may be evidence as to its influence, but we're not talking about that.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm sorry, is the historical existence of the person of Jesus Christ really in doubt for you? Don't let me get in the way of you looking for such evidence yourself but I don't think we need to provide that for something that all serious students of history do not doubt.

Here might be a place to start:
The Evidence For Jesus
"Even the most critical historian can confidently assert that a Jew named Jesus worked as a teacher and wonder-worker in Palestine during the reign of Tiberius, was executed by crucifixion under the prefect Pontius Pilate and continued to have followers after his death."

That's not the hard part.

The hard part is proving that any of the stories about him are true, and that any of the accounts of people recounting the stories about him are true.

Quote:

Almost all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, but scholars differ on the historicity of specific episodes described in the Biblical accounts of Jesus, and the only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate. Elements whose historical authenticity is disputed include the two accounts of the Nativity of Jesus, the miraculous events including the resurrection, and certain details about the crucifixion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

So, you have real people in a real setting, but no way to tell if the stories told about these people in that setting are true.

Quote: FrGamble

There lived about 2016 years ago a man, Jesus of Nazareth who claimed to be God, who was killed, and was raised from the dead. His followers who witnessed these events spread the message of Him to the point where today the believers in Jesus Christ are found all over the world.

The promises of salvation and heaven is the mansion and expensive cars I'm talking about. You don't think it's ridiculous to promise something you can't even show an iota of proof of existence of? And second, like a person with the mansion and expensive cars which you never show, you want us to disprove you have them? It's definitely like many of the system players on the other board. It's millions of people selling the idea of shamwow rags, or arthritis copper bands. Phony baloney. Actually it might be worse for all the time it consumes.

How are you going to spin it this time?

2014 saw a solid box office performance of Christian themed movies
2/28/14 Son of God
3/21/14 God's Not Dead
4/16/14 Heaven is for Real
8/22/14 When the Game Stands Tall

Two more were released this year,
2/19/16 Risen
3/16/16 Miracles from Heaven

Miracles from Heaven with Jennifer Garner and Queen Latifah seems particularly profitable.

Quote: Dalex64

That's not the hard part. The hard part is proving that any of the stories about him are true, and that any of the accounts of people recounting the stories about him are true.
.

It's not just hard, it's impossible. That's why
nobody has done it. The stories and urban
legends were added to for so long before
anything was written down that we'll never
know the truth. Add to that what Paul invented
to fill in the blanks, and you a have certifiable
mess.

Quote: rxwine

The promises of salvation and heaven is the mansion and expensive cars I'm talking about. You don't think it's ridiculous to promise something you can't even show an iota of proof of existence of? And second, like a person with the mansion and expensive cars which you never show, you want us to disprove you have them? It's definitely like many of the system players on the other board. It's millions of people selling the idea of shamwow rags, or arthritis copper bands. Phony baloney. Actually it might be worse for all the time it consumes.

How are you going to spin it this time?

I'm sorry I forgot to get back to this interesting analogy.

For sure I would never believe in someone who promises a mansion or expensive cars without seeing them or giving me some iota of evidence they exist. Jesus offers something much greater of course and gives us constantly a glimpse of what is to come in prayer and in the joy that comes from loving and serving another. Eternal peace and happiness is what Jesus gives us and He has more times than I can count shown me real proof of its existence.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus offers something much greater of course and gives us constantly a glimpse of what is to come in prayer

So Jesus offers eternal, pointless boredom?

And you expect me to think this is good because...?

I'm listening to "A Universe From Nothing," by Lawrence M. Krauss, subtitled "Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing."

It's a short book, only 5:30 hours long, and I bit off a substantial piece during a workout. In the introduction Dr. Krauss makes several points on the debate of science vs religion which are very similar to some points I've made here. He also mentions a certain Fr. Lemaitre(*) admonished a certain Bishop of Rome in the 50s for trying to use the Big Bang as proof of "God."

Wow!


(*) A man so great he can be forgiven for his nominal profession.

Here's a freebie for young Earth creationists:

In all those places in the Bible where it's stated the Earth is Flat, the all-powerful, perfect, god Jehovah actually meant to say the Universe.

Go on, use it. The universe is flat.

Of course, it needs to be billions of years old for the evidence to support that >:)