Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

. So He gave it all up, the infinite eternal all-powerful, all-knowing God became a helpless baby and was fully human. Willingly taking the form of a slave and subjecting Himself to time, space limitations, and the joys and sufferings of our life so that when we experience the many challenges of life

You really need a new story, 2000
years of telling this one is driving
people away, not attracting them.
It's just hokum with zero evidence
to back it up. If you were anybody
less than a priest, I would have
ended this conversation a year
ago. But priests are hard to get the
attention of by atheists, their huge
egos usually prevent them from
giving much of their time to such
hardcore unbelievers.

Quote: Nareed

That's the old "And from nonsense like this Einstein made a living?" joke.

Yes, one hour to you is far different than one hour for a dog, and even far different than one hour for a child. But for changes to happen, you need the passage of time, like it or not. I don't care if one billion years seems as short as one day seems to an average person.

For changes to happen you do need time. Time exists, God created it when He made the universe.

Quote:

The point is there's no such thing as "outside of time." There can't be.

Why do you say this? What was there before the creation of the universe?

Quote: FrGamble

Why do you say this?

I cannot tell a lie (well, technically tat's not true <w>)

Quote:

What was there before the creation of the universe?

We don't know whether the universe was created, your misunderstanding of the Big Bang notwithstanding.

Quote: Nareed

We don't know whether the universe was created, your misunderstanding of the Big Bang notwithstanding.

We do know the universe was created because it cannot create itself.

Quote: FrGamble

We do know the universe was created because it cannot create itself.

We certainly don't now that.

Quote: FrGamble

For changes to happen you do need time. Time exists, God created it when He made the universe.

There is no god to create anything,
you have no evidence a place with
no time exists. Even the kids who
have past life memories say they
experienced time in between births.
Or something that felt like time
to some of them.

Quote: Nareed

We certainly don't now that.

What don't we know. We know that something that did not create itself is dependent on something else for its creation. We also know that the universe did not create itself because material contingent things are dependent on something else for their existence.

Maybe the universe is an elaborate dream and not real. Is that what you are suggesting?

Quote: Evenbob

There is no god to create anything,
you have no evidence a place with
no time exists. Even the kids who
have past life memories say they
experienced time in between births.
Or something that felt like time
to some of them.

Even after we die we are still subject to time. It is very different but it we cannot escape the fact that we have a past, present, and an eternal future.

Quote: FrGamble

We also know that the universe did not create itself because material contingent things are dependent on something else for their existence.

We don't know that.

So do you think it is possible for a non necessary material thing to have created itself?