Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

Yes, it is not the atheism that makes them terrible or cause the most violent and bloody century in human history. However, I believe that atheism does nothing to fight against such totalitarianism.

Neither does religion.

Leaving aside all arguments, concentrate on the evidence. Russia, the first modern totalitarian state, was a religious country when the Communists took over. Poland, where most of the Nazis' extermination camps were located, and where they found fertile soil for wholesale murder of Jews and others, was a devout Catholic country at the time. And today the worst totalitarian excesses are carried out by devout Muslims.

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In many things, especially history, I would defer to your knowledge of the existence of Christian totalitarian regimes. It is interesting that they don't come to mind immediately for any of us like say the Nazis, Russia, Pol Pot, etc. Maybe that is because they didn't kill millions of their own people, commit genocide, or claim racial superiority?

It's the entirety of Europe from the Middle ages to the Enlightenment. Also known as the Dark Ages. I'd argue it goes even further back, to the late IVth Century BCE, and it helped lead to the fall of the Roman Empire in the West.

Massacres, mass expulsions, gratuitous invasions and other atrocities are too numerous to mentions. Let's settle for two: the crusades, and the sack of Constantinople. The latter one is deeply ironic, considering it was carried out by a "holy" army provided with Papal authority. Somehow sacking an Orthodox city would help to liberate the "holy" land from the "infidels."

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To be totalitarian in the sense we saw in the atrocities of the 20th Century you have to constantly fight against Christianity or distort it in ways that you cannot sustain.

The Crusades, the sack of Constantinople, the expulsion of Jews from Spain and other countries, the treatment of the poor and minorities during the bouts of plague (including the Black Death), show otherwise.

Quote: FrGamble

I can imagine an honest and intelligent person can see when something is written with a strong agenda in mind.

Like when reading books such as the Bible, for example?

Quote: Dalex64

Are witches and their supernatural powers real?


Evidence: Similar beliefs across cultures and across the world, and lots of people believed in them, answers important questions such as the cause of evil and sickness, their practices are documented in the bible, there are prohibitions in the bible against it.

Here is a Papal Bull that talks about witches:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summis_desiderantes_affectibus

More on witch hunts:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_early_modern_period

Thank you very much for these much better links to this issue. They are very informative and I find them much more reasonable and accurate. They don't mention the number of witches that were executed by the Catholic Church but that number is extremely low compared to those killed by mobs, the government, and other denominations.

Quote: Dalex64

I don't like duplicate posts. This was a duplicate post, so I am replacing it with something else.

I was wondering why God gave Satan power, and where demons got their power from, which led me to
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism_in_the_Catholic_Church

So, what are demons, how and why do they possess people, and where do they get the power to do it?

Follow-up: if incubi and succubi are incarnations of demons on earth, are there other demons or angels incarnating on earth?

Demons are fallen angels. Angels are spiritual beings and not limited by time and space as we are. They are immensely intelligent and powerful and they too were created with free will. At their creation they knew the plan of God to create human beings who would be loved by God and saved through service and sacrifice. Some angels rejected this plan seeing us as inferior. They wanted to be served and not to serve. They wanted to set themselves up as gods to be worshiped by us, like the pagan gods of old. Lucifer, meaning Light bearer, in particular abhorred God's plan of humility and service to mankind and as Milton wrote famously shouted, "Non Serviam!" "I will NOT serve!" These angels by making this choice were completely corrupted and changed, they were damned and eternally separated from God. Hell was made for these fallen angels, called demons, and not for human beings. However, misery loves company and these demons set out to destroy God's plan by corrupting and encouraging God's creation of human beings to also not serve, to be filled with pride, become like gods, and ultimately reject the love of God. The Angels do the opposite and encourage service, humility, and the acceptance of God's love and the love of our brothers and sisters. There is spiritual war taking place for our eternal souls. When we allow these demons and their false and destructive thoughts and ideology into ourselves we find ourselves oppressed or in extreme cases possessed by them. Unlike God demons have no qualms about completely taking us over and controlling us. They are allowed to do this because of the freedom that God has given them at the beginning of their existence. Like us who are also given freedom that is radically respected by God so that we can love, the demons freedom is also respected even after they chose to reject love and choose to hate completely God and all His creation.

incubi and succubi are not incarnations of demons but rather Latin words that my best guess right now refer to innocent (the falling under demonic influence because of choices made by us that were not explicitly desiring to welcome the demonic into our lives) or complicit (the free choosing of ourselves to invite and welcome the demonic into our lives).

Quote: Nareed

Leaving aside all arguments, concentrate on the evidence. Russia, the first modern totalitarian state, was a religious country when the Communists took over. Poland, where most of the Nazis' extermination camps were located, and where they found fertile soil for wholesale murder of Jews and others, was a devout Catholic country at the time. And today the worst totalitarian excesses are carried out by devout Muslims.

Again looking at the evidence we can see what the communists and Nazis had to do first in these countries before their evil was able to accomplished. They had to infiltrate, persecute, distort, and destroy the Church. This is the first step to the rise of totalitarianism. Islam and its connection to totalitarianism is indeed an interesting and disturbing phenomenon and I pray that Muslims will continue to reform and reject these elements in their religion, which cause them great harm and all religion in general.

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Let's settle for two: the crusades, and the sack of Constantinople. The latter one is deeply ironic, considering it was carried out by a "holy" army provided with Papal authority. Somehow sacking an Orthodox city would help to liberate the "holy" land from the "infidels."

The crusades were meant to liberate the Holy Land. The sacking of Constantinople was NOT by an army provided with Papal authority. In fact every crusader that took part in that disastrous act was excommunicated. They were not religiously motivated to sack Constantinople there were other political and financial forces at work there involving Venice merchants and others.

Quote: FrGamble

They don't mention the number of witches that were executed by the Catholic Church but that number is extremely low compared to those killed by mobs, the government, and other denominations.

That's your excuse for every bad thing the
Church has done. "We may be bad, but not
nearly as bad as others." Like that's a reason.
Try it in court and you'll get the same sentence
as everybody else because it's not a valid defense.
It's a cop-out.

Quote: FrGamble

Demons are fallen angels. Angels are spiritual beings and not limited by time and space as we are. They are immensely intelligent and powerful and they too were created with free will..

At Easter, the Easter Bunny hides eggs and
brings candy for the kids. Just as valid as the
existence of angels.

Quote: FrGamble

The crusades were meant to liberate the Holy Land. .

The main goal was to defend Christianity
from the advancing hordes of Islam, who
had already taken over 2/3 of Christian
lands. It's a complicated and interesting
story that is relevant today to people in
the middle east. A Crusades historian
has a very good article about it here.

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the-real-history-of-the-crusades

The Church's involvement wasn't as bad
as many have believed, nor was it Shirley
Temple at a Saturday matinee. As usual,
the Church was only half as evil as history
likes to remember it.

Quote: FrGamble

Again looking at the evidence we can see what the communists and Nazis had to do first in these countries before their evil was able to accomplished.

The communist philosophy included peace (remember it took Lenin's takeover to pull Russia out of WWI), communal property and disdain for wealth. They were very big on redistribution and sharing, too. Sound familiar to you?

As for Poland, the Nazis provided an excuse and the means. The Catholic Poles helped willingly.

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The crusades were meant to liberate the Holy Land.

The Irony is strong with this one.

The Pope had neither a legal nor especially a moral right to "liberate" lands fairly conquered by the Caliphate. The Byzantines might have had a legal claim, but they knew better than to attempt such a Quixotic, insane adventure. Morally, at the time, the Caliphate was the lesser evil (there were no good sides then).

You do know "liberate" is military euphemism for "stealing"? You do now.

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The sacking of Constantinople was NOT by an army provided with Papal authority.

All armies involved in the Crusades had such authority.

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In fact every crusader that took part in that disastrous act was excommunicated.

Is the saying about closing the barn door after the horse escapes part of the Bible?

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They were not religiously motivated to sack Constantinople there were other political and financial forces at work there involving Venice merchants and others.

I know all that was involved. But they were on a Crusade to "liberate" the "holy" land, too.

God's version of free will is "follow me or burn in Hell."

My version of free will is more like Chicago vs. New York. However, in my version, I could still visit the inside of an active volcano, walk on broken glass, or visit the worst neighborhood in Detroit. But at least my version is true free will not fake free will like the Bible.

Because true free will isn't this one way, or eternal punishment as your choices.

It's like one of those organizations, where you're told you're free to quit at any time, except not really, because the floor drops out and you're eaten by sharks once you do.