Two Gods or One

Quote: FrGamble

It is very possible to be wrong all the time.

Anyway, when you get to Heaven do you suppose God will show you the Catholics were the ones who were right? You seem to firmly insist that you are right on certain scriptural issues over other Christians.

I think it's funny you can be so certain.

Quote: rxwine

Anyway, when you get to Heaven do you suppose God will show you the Catholics were the ones who were right? You seem to firmly insist that you are right on certain scriptural issues over other Christians.

I think it's funny you can be so certain.

Not really. It's called faith.

Quote: TheCesspit

Not really. It's called faith.

Which is something I will never understand.
Religious faith in something that has no proof,
no evidence, just because it sounds good
you want it to be true Or somebody taught
you it's OK because they do it. I have faith
the plane I get on will fly because I can see the
science behind it. I can see the data, I
can see other planes flying. I have yet
to have a dead relative come back and
tell me it's the right thing to believe in
Jesus. Has anybody? I didn't think so.

Quote: TheCesspit

Not really. It's called faith.

Well, I would go with that, but I think FrGamble has gotten to the point where he insists there is evidence for God -- enough evidence to declare him real as anything else.

So, he's the one talking to the real god, I guess.

Quote: FrGamble

It is very possible to be wrong all the time.

Theists try really hard, but even they don't manage to be all wrong all the time. As Sheldon Cooper would say "it's statistically unlikely."

Quote: rxwine

Anyway, when you get to Heaven do you suppose God will show you the Catholics were the ones who were right?

Very unlikely.

After passing through a series of perils and trials, you'll stand judgment before Thoth, the Divine Scribe. If He tells you anything, it won't be that a false religion which prayed to a false god was right. He'll be more interested in your actions than in your beliefs anyway.

Quote: rxwine

Well, I would go with that, but I think FrGamble has gotten to the point where he insists there is evidence for God -- enough evidence to declare him real as anything else.

So, he's the one talking to the real god, I guess.

Yes. FrGamble's evidence for God is also faith. Because it never looks like real evidence to me. But if it does to him, all well and good.

But what always gets me is his complete unwillingness to understand that you don't need a divine power to be a moral being. The existence of morality does necessitate a God. Or vice versus. And how offensively he holds that position towards atheists.

Or that the prime mover concept does not lead us to require a moralistic, divine being. It always starts with God exists as per the Bible, so therefore these things are true.

Its a terrible axiom to prove the existence of the Roman Catholic God. It's a fine one to have when arguing about the details of faith in your religious community.

Quote: TheCesspit

But what always gets me is his complete unwillingness to understand that you don't need a divine power to be a moral being. The existence of morality does necessitate a God. Or vice versus. And how offensively he holds that position towards atheists.

What gets me is he, and about 99.9999% of all other Christian and overall theistic apologists, don't even realize the impression they give of themselves.

Briefly put, they seem to be saying "Without the threat of eternal damnation, I'd be a nihilist who'd value nothing and care for no one, and I'd get my jollies getting high, raping and grabbing whatever I want."

OR, at the very least, they'd still be moral, but everyone else would be the kind of wild beast described above. In this case they show how little they think of humanity, not to mention everyone they've ever met personally.

No wonder they need a cruel, vindictive deity who professes "love" in some ineffable kind of sense.

Quote: Nareed

Theists try really hard, but even they don't manage to be all wrong all the time.

You nailed it. Theists are so wrong so often
that I just take it for granted. It's not that
I'm wrong all the time, that's not possible.
It's that FrG is so wrong most of the time
and I'm so used to it, I don't even look at
it as being wrong anymore. I just accept
it as Christians having a 'problem'. Like
my Uncle Jake who thinks he's Teddy
Roosevelt.

Quote: Nareed

Briefly put, they seem to be saying "Without the threat of eternal damnation, I'd be a nihilist who'd value nothing and care for no one,

Yes, this is why I tread lightly around Christians
in my real life. They give the impression that
without their belief in god constantly reigning
them in every minute, they would go absolutely
nuts and go postal on everybody. It's why I
never argue with them, and pat them on the
head like they're children. They have so little
faith in their innate moral character that they
frighten me. Like losing faith in god would
give them permission to become monsters.