The "problem" of evil

Quote: rxwine

Myth or not the lesson it teaches is fundamental to the Catholics idea of original sin, that's why it's important. And it's so flawed that it's an insult to intelligence even as a lesson.

Original Sin expresses a reality that all of us as human beings must deal with. We are good and want to do good, yet we so often find ourselves tempted to do wrong and doing the things we wish we would not do. Is that wrong or flawed or an insult to intelligence to recognize this truth?

Quote: Dalex64

God knew what would happen, had the power to prevent it at no consequence to us, and chose not do so. It is perfectly unjust.

God knew what would happen, had the power to prevent it but at a great consequence to us. Imagine a loving father who was so scared that his children would do wrong that he kept them locked up in a comfortable but padded room in the basement. Is this what you would want God to do? What exactly are you accusing God of, can you think of another way in which God would give us freedom to resist temptation or to chose it but did so in a way that we would never chose temptation and never experience the consequences of sin?

Quote: Nareed

So your gods won't comfort you, they won't help you, and they'll stand passively by in the midst of atrocities no matter how awful..

You misunderstand me. God is constantly comforting us, but He exists not to shield us from the consequences of our choices. God is always helping us, but we are free to ignore or reject His help. God NEVER stands passively by in the midst of any atrocity big or small. He is constantly at work trying to convert hearts to do what is right and comforting the victims of evil and making sure that ultimate justice is given.

In the lack of a God why could you not be convicted of not giving comfort or help. Why do you stand passively by when young children are being raped and sold into the sex trade? Shouldn't you and I being doing everything we can and committing all our resources to stopping these atrocities instead of blaming God who is often the only one who is bringing hope and justice to those we ignore and condemn to be preyed on by evil people by our silence? Be careful in your hypocritical condemnation of God.

Quote: FrGamble

God knew what would happen, had the power to prevent it but at a great consequence to us. Imagine a loving father who was so scared that his children would do wrong that he kept them locked up in a comfortable but padded room in the basement. Is this what you would want God to do?

Bad analogy. Not applicable. Don't use analogies.

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What exactly are you accusing God of,

I am accusing god of wanting us to suffer, by choosing to place us in an environment where we were doomed to fail, he would punish us, and he knew it would happen all along.

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can you think of another way in which God would give us freedom to resist temptation or to chose it but did so in a way that we would never chose temptation and never experience the consequences of sin?

Can I think of another way? Uhm, yes! Have us exist in heaven, or have earth have the same properties as heaven if you need them to be two separate places. That is exactly how you have described heaven. Freedom, free will, the ability to sin or to give in to temptation, but no one ever does. no one ever sins, no one ever experiences the consequences of sin.

Quote: FrGamble

You misunderstand me.

Perhaps you misspoke. I didn't misunderstand.

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God NEVER stands passively by in the midst of any atrocity big or small.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure!

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In the lack of a God why could you not be convicted of not giving comfort or help.

Now, see, this sentence makes no sense. Let's unpack:

1) Why should anyone be convicted, and for what, for either offering or not offering support?
2) What do deities, present or absent, have anything to do with it.

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Why do you stand passively by when young children are being raped and sold into the sex trade? Shouldn't you and I being doing everything we can and committing all our resources to stopping these atrocities instead of blaming God who is often the only one who is bringing hope and justice to those we ignore and condemn to be preyed on by evil people by our silence? Be careful in your hypocritical condemnation of God.

Why do you change the subject?

I'm neither omnipotent, nor do I claim to love everyone. For instance, if Trump were being eaten by wolves, I'd stand to the side and say "You're being killed by wolves. I like people who don't let themselves be eaten by wolves."

I do donate money to charities that combat human trafficking. I do my bit to prevent child rape by discrediting the large institution you represent, which succored child rapists for decades, and for all I know continues to do so.

but if all I did was to say "Oh, that's too bad!" nevertheless it would be a great deal more than the nothing your non-existent god could ever do.

Now, why would your three gods not do a thing to stop things like the Holocaust, the rape of whole continents by Christians (America, Africa and a good chunk of Asia), but would intervene in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, according to Constantine? Be careful how you answer.

Quote: Dalex64

Can I think of another way? Uhm, yes! Have us exist in heaven, or have earth have the same properties as heaven if you need them to be two separate places. That is exactly how you have described heaven. Freedom, free will, the ability to sin or to give in to temptation, but no one ever does. no one ever sins, no one ever experiences the consequences of sin.

That's WAY TOO HARD, for a god who created the Universe. He must allow evil and have eternal hell, and punish millions of generations of people for Adam & Eve disobeying a command, and destroy the world of people and animals with a massive flood. And too much other crap to mention.
(sarcasm)

Quote: Dalex64

I am accusing god of wanting us to suffer, by choosing to place us in an environment where we were doomed to fail, he would punish us, and he knew it would happen all along.

God most surely does not want us to suffer. Where we are doomed to fail but will be redeemed. What do you have against punishment? It is not as if God is punishing us for fun or because we didn't jump through some hoop. We do things that are bad for us and it has consequences. What is wrong or unfair about that?

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Can I think of another way? Uhm, yes! Have us exist in heaven, or have earth have the same properties as heaven if you need them to be two separate places. That is exactly how you have described heaven. Freedom, free will, the ability to sin or to give in to temptation, but no one ever does. no one ever sins, no one ever experiences the consequences of sin.

Um...that is exactly what He did, remember the Garden of Eden. The only difference is that in Heaven there is Satan or tempter. Maybe there is something for us to learn about facing temptation and receiving forgiveness and mercy that is important for us. Maybe in overcoming temptation and sin we become more of the people God has created us to be. What you are suggesting is to put the cart before the horse. You present a world in which we stay spiritual infants and never reach our true potential.

Quote: FrGamble

. You present a world in which we stay spiritual infants and never reach our true potential.

You keep forgetting god can reform the process itself.

God doesn't HAVE to let the process work the way it works now.

He had the ability to create two kinds of beings. (angels and humans) Gave one more power. He had the power to add in childbirth pain after the fall, or take it away. He has the ability to make it rain for 40 days and nights

God can provide spiritual growth in any way he chooses.

Saying he can only do things one way is BS.

Quote: FrGamble

We do things that are bad for us and it has consequences. What is wrong or unfair about that?

What did millions of Jews in Europe did that was so bad for them, that Jehovah had to torture and kill them?

Quote: rxwine

You keep forgetting god can reform the process itself.

God doesn't HAVE to let the process work the way it works now.

Yes, but you keep forgetting God doesn't HAVE to let the process work the way YOU want it to. So far the only reason you seem to present as to why God's way is the wrong way is that there is suffering in the world. I feel that this is not a reasonable response and an emotional and understandable knee jerk reaction. I think it would be better to reasonably talk about why suffering in the world is allowed and what if anything can be gained from it.

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Saying he can only do things one way is BS.

Again saying He can only do things your way is BS. You have to have reasons behind your answer and not just because you say so.