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World Youth Day in Poland
| August 4th, 2016 at 3:40:33 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
You forget we've already established you don't know what love is. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| August 4th, 2016 at 4:06:31 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Really? You want go down the Inquisition road again? Or the Crusades road, the witch burning road, the awful treatment of Gays road? All are examples of gods so called love at work, are they not? If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| August 4th, 2016 at 8:11:22 PM permalink | |
| TheCesspit Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 1929 |
Dignity does not come from being loved. And certainly there was no dignity left to those shot and left in graves in Poland, or left twisted and broken in the Killing fields of Pol Pot, or those kept enslaved for years during the Japanese invasion of China, or those tortured during the Inquisition. Despite their love for God, God's love remained them without any dignity, torn and suffering. Suffering is not holy or righteous; and a religion that makes it so, and that says God intercedes if we just pray hard enough, but leaves some many dead and dying for a mysterious plan is not showing the love and giving the dignity that anyone would recognize. The Christian God of the RC church, the personal Jesus is a horrendous thing. There is no logical conclusion that takes us to the existance of this omnipotent God who takes part in human affairs. It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life |
| August 4th, 2016 at 8:38:40 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
FrG can't see that, and it's so clear. His mind is clouded with brainwashing, he see's green where the rest of the world see's blue. It's funny, sad, and fascinating, all at the same time. And don't think the Church doesn't like suffering. Mom Teresa loved it, she preached on it all the time. Her coworkers said she loved the suffering of the dying because it brought them closer to god. Really sick twisted stuff. FrG will now say she never said that, I'll find where she did say it, and he'll say they're lying. Been down that road before.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| August 5th, 2016 at 6:10:22 AM permalink | |
| SOOPOO Member since: Feb 19, 2014 Threads: 22 Posts: 4178 |
I wish I was as well written as you! But to FrGamble... I am glad you enjoyed the WYD celebration. I frankly was worried that a jihadist would specifically target such an event. |
| August 5th, 2016 at 1:51:45 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
I see FrG has yet to weigh in, maybe he has no response. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| August 5th, 2016 at 7:11:48 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
God's love is what gave them a dignity that no amount of torture and hatred could take from them. You paint a picture of hopelessness and despair. When you go to Auschwitz make sure to visit the death cell of St. Maxilimian Kolbe. There is a Paschal Candle there that gives out the only light in that dark place when lit. The light will always conquer the darkness and love will always conquer hate, even in that place. You will also see scratched in the walls of the prisoners with their fingernails beautiful images of the cross of Christ, the Sacred Heart, and other symbols of hope and love. Where does dignity come from if not from being loved? Without love life loses its value and dignity.
Suffering is NOT holy or righteous, but it is a reality that we must all deal with. A religion that says God suffers with us and loves us through our suffering and promises hope and the ultimate victory of love is what is needed. A philosophy of random chance and no God robs us not only of dignity but value and allows those tortured and suffering left with nothing - this is the most horrendous thing one can imagine. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| August 5th, 2016 at 8:38:16 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Tell that to Mother Teresa, she thought suffering was wonderful. "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people" Some who worked with her thought she was a sadist, she almost delighted in suffering. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| August 6th, 2016 at 12:15:03 AM permalink | |
| TheCesspit Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 1929 |
Except it was taken from them. It was all taken from them. I don't want someone who could end the suffering to suffer along with me. That's not love, not when you have an all powerful god, a god you tell us intercedes on the behalf of some... but not others. Where is the love when you choose to rescue one poor soul, but not another? Where is the love when god is given the glory for the success and works of human's, but not given the responsibility for the death of the innocent? The reason I paint a picture of despair and hopelessness is because that is all that was left, when everything had been taken from these poor souls. Where does dignity come from if not from being loved? Without love life loses its value and dignity. Dignity comes from the right to be respected, values and treated fairly and ethically. You can call those things love if you will, be where is the dignity left if all those things are taken away from you, if all that is left is this God, this all powerful presence suffering along with you? People can react like your monk. But not all have that fortitude. Why not? Did they not believe hard enough?
No, God is not required for dignity, and a lack of god does not rob us of value. The thing is, the tortured and suffering are left with nothing... that's often the point of the evil that men do to each other. The most horrendous thing one can imagine is not a lack of god, but a lack basic human rights and treatment. That does not come from God directly, but from humankind. The personal, knowable god is not necessary for these things, and for him to allow the dignity to be taken from others shows a lack of actual love and and understanding the dignity of humans. Random chance is not a philosophy. God is not required for moral absolutism, he's just a handy guide until you look a bit harder. You can sell me on the deist god if you want, but I absolutely reject the case, both ethically and logically, for the God you propose. If one has the power to help save another person, and not do it, and that saving them would be a mere trifle, not doing it is morally reprehensible. If I told you by clapping your hands three times right now would stop a child in Botswana dying of dysentery today, I can bet you would do it right, and three times more for good measure. Would not have saving Maxilimian Kolbe have been even less work for God? I don't understand why God gets a free pass here, but humans don't... why the ethical responsibility you say comes from God is not something God is bound by. Feels like the supreme ruler who sets the laws that they have no intention of following. It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life |
| August 6th, 2016 at 7:02:05 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18213 |
I remember when he was made a saint, we studied it. He volunteered to be starved to save another guy in what was a hopeless camp anyways. IIRC it was 10 of them in that cell, so engrossed in their prayer that they usually didn't notice when the Nazis came in the room to check on them. Expected to be 10 days with no food or water and going at it I forget how many days later and finally the guards got tired of waiting and shot them all. Paschal Candle? Please elaborate. The President is a fink. |