The Holy Trinity

Quote: FrGamble

What evidence can you provide that would support this claim?

I think this might be hell and I
just don't know it. A discussion
with a person who just wants to
go over the same subjects again
and again, like we've never discussed
it before, so he can repeat his same
objections word for word like I
haven't heard them five times
already. Somebody (it was not Einstein)
said insanity is doing the same thing
over and over expecting a different
outcome.

No thanks.

Quote: Evenbob

Pretty much. Look again at that long
list of atheists you think are idiots.

Try to keep up with the thread Evenbob, I specifically said I would not call them idiots. I do think it is idiotic to claim that you can't believe in something without proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt and without understanding it completely. Think about how many things in your life you hold that you cannot prove certain and don't completely understand. You use trust in faith all the time. To denigrate how you and all of us live our lives as ignorant is I believe idiotic.

By the way do you believe the men on the long list of believing scientists are all reveling in ignorance?

Quote:

All they want is a little real evidence,
and you consider that way too much
to ask for.

How many times do I need to say that evidence is essential to believing in anything. You can deny the evidence I present (without ever giving a coherent reason, by the way) all you want, that is your perjotive. However, please never say I consider asking for evidence too much to as for. You know that is wrong. How many times have I asked you for any shred of evidence to support your atheism? You have never given any! It is you that seem to think you can make positive claims without any evidence, not me.

I'm just asking you why you think religion is fundamentally detrimental to science. I don't think you've made that ridiculous claim before.

If you don't want the same answers why don't you stop asking the same questions and rehashing the same objections I have already debunked? You keep making the same errors, what do you expect?

Quote: FrGamble

How many times do I need to say that evidence is essential to believing in anything.

And yet you have none for
your belief in god. Round
and round this goes, so
boring, so tiring. So non
productive. But that's the
god religions, stagnant,
they stand still while the
world goes by around them.

Quote: FrGamble

If you don't want the same answers why don't you stop asking the same questions

What questions have I asked, I didn't
ask any questions. Just for fun I went
and looked at every post I made in
this thread since you revived it. I
didn't ask a single question.

In fact, I seldom ask questions. I
don't need to, I already know the
answers. If you read my posts you'll
see I make mostly declarative
statements, I don't ask questions.
Why would I, I'm not confused about
anything. I have been thinking about
and discussing these subjects since
before you were born, what possible
questions would I have. I answer
questions, I don't ask them.

Quote: Evenbob

And yet you have none for
your belief in god.

Yes you make declarative statements all the time that make me question your sanity. You not only don't ask questions you refuse to answer questions. Go back through this thread and take a look at how many questions you ignore.

Here is the thing Evenbob. You know I have said countless times to you that belief requires evidence. Now I know you don't think there is any evidence for God. I've asked you why you think this and asked you for evidence for what you believe so many times that I realize I'll never get any answer from you, that's okay - I really don't care. I know you don't have any answers, but I just thought if you tried to answer these questions you yourself would see that. I've given up with you. There are many ways God can reach you, but it won't be me through this forum. I'm okay with that.

All I can do now is just defend my positions and make sure your more erroneous statements about Church teaching, history, or what I believe are not left unchallenged. I really don't think it is even helpful when you respond to me. We keep saying the same stuff. Just know if you say FrG thinks all atheists are idiots or that evidence isn't needed for belief or the Trinity comes from pagans or the Church forced everyone to convert or any other false statements I will simply point out you are wrong how ever many times you keep saying it. Since you don't listen to anything I say it would be better for you to just ignore me or else we keep going back and forth. I don't change what I am saying because I am right and you never listen and you don't change what you are saying because you think you are right and you won't take me or anything I say seriously.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes you make declarative statements all the time that make me question your sanity. .

It's not your sanity your questioning,
it's all the religious pap you were fed
as a child that turned you into a robot
for the Vatican.

What you should be asking yourself
is why, if god is so obvious and there
is sooooooo much evidence that he
exists, how did all those really smart
and accomplished people on the atheist
list miss it.

If I were you, that would bother me a
great deal. From a logical point of view,
them being right and you being wrong
has the odds hugely in their favor.

So Bob, you think what is true and right is just about the number of smart people who believe it? I don't think that is a good judge of if something is correct or not but if you want to compare lists of really smart and accomplished people who believe in God and those who don't I would be glad to do so and finish this debate once and for all. I'll give you a hint my list is much, much, much bigger than yours.

However, I know from previous conversations when I have pointed out that 99% of human beings throughout history believe in God that this is not compelling to you. Maybe you think everyone besides you and your little list are stupid or idiots (didn't you accuse me of saying that recently)? But I don't think that you believe that the vast majority of people in the world are stupid. So maybe you can explain more of why you think evidence for atheism is a list of smart people who don't believe in God? Would you accept a list of smart people who do believe in God to be evidence for God's existence?

Finally, lets look from a logical point of view at your claim that they would know better about God's existence because they are smart and the odds are in favor that they are right. You have a lot of explaining here to do. What makes a smart person more likely to know about God's existence than say someone of mediocre intelligence? Does a scientist make you a theologian? Do you think these men and women have spent time trying to know God and praying? What about the majority of them who would never go so far as you and claim with certainty there is absolutely no chance or possibility there is a God. I think you will find yourself with a much shorter list of smart people who would agree with you there.

So no, I'm sorry I am not bothered by your post and the obvious contradictions and failed logic. May the odds always be in your favor.

Quote: FrGamble

So Bob, you think what is true and right is just about the number of smart people who believe it? .

What you have are lists of smart
people who, like you, were born
into a family that brainwashed
them from an early age into the
religion. What you don't have is
a list of really smart people who
in their adult lives converted into
believing in god.

Oh, they exist, but the list of them
is very short. For the most part,
high IQ people not born into a religion
usually want no part of it in adult
life. It makes no sense to them.

But you always go back to this, don't
you. The only 'proof' you have is
that some people believe it, like that's
proof of anything. Jim Jones followers
sipping the Kool Aid, how could they
all be wrong..

No I have lots of other evidence that you already know. Are you presenting as your first evidence for atheism the witness of a small group of very smart people who don't believe in God, maybe have never really looked into it, and fundamentally disagree with you concerning the certainty of no God? Is that really what you are proposing? Are you serious? Just leave me alone if that is all you have, I'm waiting for Dalex to respond to an earlier post.