The Holy Trinity

Quote: aceofspades

See, so, without being told about your "God" - they would not believe - so the whole premise of proving or disproving is nonsensical - "God" or "gods" are a made-up concept to give comfort to people who were not scientifically advanced enough to gain knowledge of the world around them as we have today

You keep moving the goalposts. I think your question was if someone never heard about Jesus or Muhammad or Moses would they know implicitly these stories and believe in them? The answer is no, that is why you need missionaries.

Somehow you have used this to say that they wouldn't believe in God. This couldn't be further from the truth. God or gods are not made-up concepts they are the most fundamental human understanding that there is more to this world than just some cosmic accident and that their obviously has to be a cause to the universe, its laws, and its motion and life. This is why every culture has always had a concept of some God, it is the most natural and easy to understand concept for us a human beings. It has nothing to do with whether someone is scientifically advanced enough. In fact it is a belief in God that leads to the desire to do science and understand the world around us.

Quote: aceofspades

Tell me the difference between my stating there is an invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur living in my backyard? It is all "because I say so"

No, not at all. The difference between your made up dinosaur and God is that God is the reason for, the source, and the sustainer for all existence, your dinosaur is not. God is a necessary being that is supported by philosophical argument and scientific evidence. For your dinosaur to be real it has to either be logically necessary, which is not, or give evidence of its existence, which it has not. It has nothing to do with "because I said so." However, if you are paying attention this is all the atheist has to support their position. Why do you claim there is for sure no God? Well...because I said so. There is no logic, no reason, no evidence, just an emotional desire on their part. I'm sorry but that doesn't work. That is like believing there is an invisible dinosaur in your backyard.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus is not dead, He is alive

I'd love to get you on the stand
and ask you to prove that. He's
as dead as a hundred doornails
and Abe Lincoln's granny. Deader,
even.

Quote: FrGamble

You keep moving the goalposts. I think your question was if someone never heard about Jesus or Muhammad or Moses would they know implicitly these stories and believe in them? The answer is no, that is why you need missionaries.

Somehow you have used this to say that they wouldn't believe in God. This couldn't be further from the truth. God or gods are not made-up concepts they are the most fundamental human understanding that there is more to this world than just some cosmic accident and that their obviously has to be a cause to the universe, its laws, and its motion and life. This is why every culture has always had a concept of some God, it is the most natural and easy to understand concept for us a human beings. It has nothing to do with whether someone is scientifically advanced enough. In fact it is a belief in God that leads to the desire to do science and understand the world around us.

Padre - that's exactly right -- but if "God" is omnipotent and is "everywhere", then why wouldn't these people implicitly know of it -- why would they have to be proselytized to by mere mortals? they should already know it -- that is why they would have the same reaction to your "God" as they would to my "invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur" -- you can prove to them that there is a "God" as much as I can prove to them there is an "invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur"

Quote: FrGamble

that is why you need missionaries.
.

Naw. You need missionaries for the
same reason Amway needs distributors.
For every new distributor added, it
grows the base of the Ponzi Scheme.
For every new Xtion, it increases the
wealth and power of the Church.
Always follow the money.

Quote: aceofspades

Tell me the difference between my stating there is an invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur living in my backyard?

I thought it was EB's dinosaur. It doesn't speak well to its existence that we don't know whose backyard it is in.

Quote: FrGamble

No, not at all. The difference between your made up dinosaur and God is that God is the reason for, the source, and the sustainer for all existence, your dinosaur is not. God is a necessary being that is supported by philosophical argument and scientific evidence. For your dinosaur to be real it has to either be logically necessary, which is not, or give evidence of its existence, which it has not. It has nothing to do with "because I said so." However, if you are paying attention this is all the atheist has to support their position. Why do you claim there is for sure no God? Well...because I said so. There is no logic, no reason, no evidence, just an emotional desire on their part. I'm sorry but that doesn't work. That is like believing there is an invisible dinosaur in your backyard.

That's because those stories have been around for 2,000 years -- perhaps I can write a book about my dinosaur and say it was divined to me in a dream from the dinosaur who can control my dreams -- and it can be filled with all sorts of philosophies

This entire thread is pointless -- rational thinking can never compete with fairy tales

Quote: FrGamble

God is the reason for, the source, and the sustainer for all existence, your dinosaur is not. .

Wow, how do you know that? The
invisible dinosaur makes every bit
as much sense as the creator of
the universe as your god does.

Quote: Wizard

I thought it was EB's dinosaur. It doesn't speak well to its existence that we don't know whose backyard it is in.

He is mine although EB is more than welcome to worship him as I do (yes, he is male dinosaur - a female dinosaur would not be made to be inaudible lol)

PS--Wiz you are welcome to worship him as well

PPS--You too Padre

Quote: FrGamble

*EXCERPT*
God is the reason for, the source, and the sustainer for all existence, your dinosaur is not

Padre - can you prove he is not?