The Holy Trinity

Quote: aceofspades

rational thinking can never compete with fairy tales

Religious people make that choice:
rational logical thinking, or myths
and fairy tales. Rationality is way
too boring, you can't pray for green
lights and parking spaces by being
rational.

Quote: Evenbob

Religious people make that choice:
rational logical thinking, or myths
and fairy tales. Rationality is way
too boring, you can't pray for green
lights and parking spaces by being
rational.

What happens when one person prays for the Yankees to win and the other prays for the Red Sox to win?

What happens when one person prays for a criminal to be found not guilty and another prays for her to be guilty?

What happens when one person prays for black on the roulette wheel, one for red and one for green?

I await all the qualifications to placed upon such "trivial" prayers


But, they are prayers nonetheless...and "God" loves the minutiae:


Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive, and ye shall have

Matthew 10:30-31 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Matthew 19:26 ...with God all things are possible.

Psalm 147:4-5 He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit. tells us that God “counts the stars and calls them all by name”

Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.Luke 1:37

Quote: aceofspades

What happens when one person is praying for the Yankees to win and the other is praying for the Red Sox to win?

If you want the Yankees to win, you would pray to the devil.

Quote: Wizard

If you want the Yankees to win, you would pray to the devil.

As a Mets fan that is true

Quote: aceofspades

Padre - that's exactly right -- but if "God" is omnipotent and is "everywhere", then why wouldn't these people implicitly know of it -- why would they have to be proselytized to by mere mortals? they should already know it -- that is why they would have the same reaction to your "God" as they would to my "invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur" -- you can prove to them that there is a "God" as much as I can prove to them there is an "invisible, inaudible, undetectable dinosaur"

Okay you are all over the place here. First of all, are we in agreement that every culture will naturally understand that there is something more to life and the universe than just ourselves and that there needs to be a first cause or unmoved mover, which everyone commonly refers to as God? That is point one, that human beings who are rational beings naturally know that it makes sense philosophically and scientifically that there would be some higher power or God.

Now if you want to make your dinosaur into the invisible, inaudible, and undetectable creator and sustainer of the universe, that is your prerogative. I think I will stay with Jesus because, well because He is real. Nevertheless if you want to worship your dinosaur you can, but just know that you are not believing in dino because he is invisible or whatever. You are worshiping dino because you believe it is the neccessary being that has created all things.

Oh, and about your question about God being everywhere and people implicitly knowing God. Well, God is everywhere and every human culture throughout history has some understanding of God. The existence of God never has to be proselytized because rational people recognize God's existence. However, to know who God is as Jesus Christ does require Revelation and Sharing the Good News. I don't think there is anywhere in the world right now that doesn't know who Jesus is and about Him. It is after all the largest religion on Earth and spans the globe. However, we still have a lot of work to do.

Quote: aceofspades

That's because those stories have been around for 2,000 years -- perhaps I can write a book about my dinosaur and say it was divined to me in a dream from the dinosaur who can control my dreams -- and it can be filled with all sorts of philosophies

Filled with what philosophies? Do you want to say that your dinosaur created the universe. Than it must also not only be invisible but eternal and all-powerful. If it created the universe than wouldn't that make it very much detectable in its creation? After all things don't create themselves; remember everything that has a beginning has a cause.

Quote:

This entire thread is pointless -- rational thinking can never compete with fairy tales

I agree rational thinking can never compete with fairy tales. Your dinosaur is a fairy tale, God is the obvious conclusion of rational thinking.

Quote: Wizard

If you want the Yankees to win, you would pray to the devil.

+1

Quote: FrGamble

Okay you are all over the place here. First of all, are we in agreement that every culture will naturally understand that there is something more to life and the universe than just ourselves and that there needs to be a first cause or unmoved mover, which everyone commonly refers to as God? That is point one, that human beings who are rational beings naturally know that it makes sense philosophically and scientifically that there would be some higher power or God.

We are certainly in agreement that the less scientifically advanced a culture is, the more they attempt to explain the "inexplicable" through "God(s)"

Quote: FrGamble

Now if you want to make your dinosaur into the invisible, inaudible, and undetectable creator and sustainer of the universe, that is your prerogative. I think I will stay with Jesus because, well because He is real. Nevertheless if you want to worship your dinosaur you can, but just know that you are not believing in dino because he is invisible or whatever. You are worshiping dino because you believe it is the neccessary being that has created all things.

But, how do you know my dinosaur isn't real, after all, he is invisible, inaudible and undetectable so you have no way of ever proving to me he does not exist

Quote: FrGamble

Oh, and about your question about God being everywhere and people implicitly knowing God. Well, God is everywhere and every human culture throughout history has some understanding of God. The existence of God never has to be proselytized because rational people recognize God's existence. However, to know who God is as Jesus Christ does require Revelation and Sharing the Good News. I don't think there is anywhere in the world right now that doesn't know who Jesus is and about Him. It is after all the largest religion on Earth and spans the globe. However, we still have a lot of work to do.

Knowing that a man named Jesus existed in the Middle East 2,000 years ago and knowing he is "God" are two entirely different things

Quote: FrGamble

Filled with what philosophies? Do you want to say that your dinosaur created the universe. Than it must also not only be invisible but eternal and all-powerful. If it created the universe than wouldn't that make it very much detectable in its creation? After all things don't create themselves; remember everything that has a beginning has a cause.

If things don't create themselves, what created "God"?

Quote: FrGamble

I agree rational thinking can never compete with fairy tales. Your dinosaur is a fairy tale, God is the obvious conclusion of rational thinking.

Oh boy

Quote: aceofspades

Oh boy

You don't want to go down that road.
The Church wants it all. They want
us to totally buy into the supernatural;
walk on water, virgin birth, magic
tricks with fish and wine, raising the
dead.

And at the same time they want to
claim their religion is both logical
and rational. If you let FrG suck you
into that conversation, like I did, you
will find yourself saying Huh? and
What? and No Way! a lot, it's really
not worth it. The best thing to do
is just smile and nod and slowly
back out of the room and be glad
you left with your sanity intact.