The Coronavirus thread

Quote: Gandler

There are some specific issues such as contact sports and who should be eligible for what league where I think competitively there are strong cases to be made for more studies, but I don't have a firm stance, this is an issue that continues to be evaluated by Courts, and I will end up resecting the decision of law and science. But, personally I want a more gender-neutral world, so I don't have a huge problem with it, but its also not something I spend a lot of time on. I think the world would be better in general if we get rid of "men's" and "women's" leagues, clubs, events, etc....

Right here you show that science is secondary to you. A "Brave New World" is more important to you than science.

FWIW I do not understand the fascination with "gender neutral" at all.

Quote: AZDuffman

Right here you show that science is secondary to you. A "Brave New World" is more important to you than science.

FWIW I do not understand the fascination with "gender neutral" at all.

I read Brave New World years ago, I don't remember much of the details, but I do not think gender was a major issue (feel free to correct me).

As for why I like gender neutral, why not? Why should anyone be restricted or favored based on their gender?

For example I am very proud of the Army for going gender neutral (and age neutral) with its PT test and opening up jobs to anyone who can meet the required scores.
If you can physically and mentally perform a task why should you be prohibited from doing it based on gender?

I would say the same thing about any job or about sports. If a woman wants to play a physically demanding and contact heavy sport and she can make the team, why should she not be allowed?

Same thing with fire departments. Women are very underrepresented in fire departments because many do not want to pass the physical test (which is quite challenging), however it is gender neutral (as are police tests which are generally easier, at least the physical fitness tests). Any job that requires a physical test to show that a candidate or current employee meets the baseline to perform should be age and gender neutral. (I remember some years ago watching some local news thing where a middle age female news reporter goes through the fire training , and asks if there is an easier version for women or , "There are not female and male fires, everyone needs to be able to safely complete the tasks", paraphrasing). This is why I like the Army system of making age and gender neutral tests, anyone can try for whatever score they want, but regardless of age or gender you need to be qualified, if a 50 year old female gets in the top bracket great, if a 19 year old male scores near the bottom great, they are qualified to go where they can and can work on improving their scores if they want a more combat focused job.

Quote: Gandler

I read Brave New World years ago, I don't remember much of the details, but I do not think gender was a major issue (feel free to correct me).

As for why I like gender neutral, why not? Why should anyone be restricted or favored based on their gender?

Quite simply, because men and women are not interchangeable. John Stossl years ago showed women trying to be firefighters. A total disaster. Feminists fought to have restrictions loosened, for example to allowing them to drag people out vs. the fireman's carry. Feminist said "the oxygen is by the floor so I (she) would rather be dragged!" Really? I and I think any sane person would prefer to be taken out as quickly as possible, not dragged on the floor.

My dad told of one of his coworkers was in a place where they were rebuilding large diesel engines. Woman gets hired and takes all the bolts out and the head needs to be lifted off. She asked which guy was going to help her. Guy next to her informed her that taking the heads off was part of the job and it was $5 per head if she wanted his help. So she was told, "you can do it--you go, girl!" when she could not do it.

By convincing women they should act like men the past 55 years or so we have built generations of unhappy women. Forced into roles they do not prefer.

Then there is the simple point that in some things men and women should be separated. It is why you used to have more men's and women's schools. The women are afraid of looking stupid around the men and the men spend their time trying to impress the women. But what happens is women enter the men's place but keep their own. Keep them apart and everyone learns more.

Then there is the point that taking away gender roles makes a bunch of confused and depressed people. Look at the higher suicide rate of transgenders to see all you need to know about this. These people get told they can "be who they want to be" but later realize their problems remain.

Gender neutral? No thanks. I am a man and will act like one. And I prefer my women act female.

Quote: AZDuffman

Quite simply, because men and women are not interchangeable. John Stossl years ago showed women trying to be firefighters. A total disaster. Feminists fought to have restrictions loosened, for example to allowing them to drag people out vs. the fireman's carry. Feminist said "the oxygen is by the floor so I (she) would rather be dragged!" Really? I and I think any sane person would prefer to be taken out as quickly as possible, not dragged on the floor.

My dad told of one of his coworkers was in a place where they were rebuilding large diesel engines. Woman gets hired and takes all the bolts out and the head needs to be lifted off. She asked which guy was going to help her. Guy next to her informed her that taking the heads off was part of the job and it was $5 per head if she wanted his help. So she was told, "you can do it--you go, girl!" when she could not do it.

By convincing women they should act like men the past 55 years or so we have built generations of unhappy women. Forced into roles they do not prefer.

Then there is the simple point that in some things men and women should be separated. It is why you used to have more men's and women's schools. The women are afraid of looking stupid around the men and the men spend their time trying to impress the women. But what happens is women enter the men's place but keep their own. Keep them apart and everyone learns more.

Then there is the point that taking away gender roles makes a bunch of confused and depressed people. Look at the higher suicide rate of transgenders to see all you need to know about this. These people get told they can "be who they want to be" but later realize their problems remain.

Gender neutral? No thanks. I am a man and will act like one. And I prefer my women act female.

Most men won't meet SEAL requirements. But some do. Most women won't meet firefighter requirements but about 4% are doing so. What's the problem?

Quote: rxwine

Most men won't meet SEAL requirements. But some do. Most women won't meet firefighter requirements but about 4% are doing so. What's the problem?

Did you read the post?

Quote: AZDuffman

Quite simply, because men and women are not interchangeable. John Stossl years ago showed women trying to be firefighters. A total disaster. Feminists fought to have restrictions loosened, for example to allowing them to drag people out vs. the fireman's carry. Feminist said "the oxygen is by the floor so I (she) would rather be dragged!" Really? I and I think any sane person would prefer to be taken out as quickly as possible, not dragged on the floor.

My dad told of one of his coworkers was in a place where they were rebuilding large diesel engines. Woman gets hired and takes all the bolts out and the head needs to be lifted off. She asked which guy was going to help her. Guy next to her informed her that taking the heads off was part of the job and it was $5 per head if she wanted his help. So she was told, "you can do it--you go, girl!" when she could not do it.

By convincing women they should act like men the past 55 years or so we have built generations of unhappy women. Forced into roles they do not prefer.

Then there is the simple point that in some things men and women should be separated. It is why you used to have more men's and women's schools. The women are afraid of looking stupid around the men and the men spend their time trying to impress the women. But what happens is women enter the men's place but keep their own. Keep them apart and everyone learns more.

Then there is the point that taking away gender roles makes a bunch of confused and depressed people. Look at the higher suicide rate of transgenders to see all you need to know about this. These people get told they can "be who they want to be" but later realize their problems remain.

Gender neutral? No thanks. I am a man and will act like one. And I prefer my women act female.

I have never been a fireman, but I have been a medic in the Army so I am very experienced with both drags and carries, and I can tell you there are a lot of different carries and drags depending on injury and environment. Sometimes a drag is the most practical. I don't know what policy you are referring to where fire departments have to allow females to drag over carry, but I am guessing it is a gross simplification. If the air is filled with smoke you would want to stay low and drag.

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/atp4_25x13.pdf

I can tell you on the Army side the Fireman carry can be great if you are alone with a patient and need to move quickly, but it is not ideal, because there is not any stabilization or securing and can cause damage to an injured patient. If you need to quickly get out of the line of fire quickly and its just you maybe, but it is not something that is often used. (Also it requires both hands so your weapon is not available).

There are many reasons to not use the fireman's carry medically and tactically. Gender is not one of them.



As for generations of unhappy women? I am not a woman. But, I would take being a woman in 2021 over a woman in 1951 any day, its not even close..... The idea that women were more happy 50-100 years ago is laughable. No woman is forced into any role (not in America anyway), if she wants to be a stay at home mother society applauds her, if she wants to work society applauds her, if she wants to stay single and devote her whole life to a specific career or goal society applauds her, its totally her choice, as it should be. All I am saying is women should be able to choose whatever they want to do, and if they meet the qualification they should be able to do it, that should not be far out concept.....

Quote: rxwine

Most men won't meet SEAL requirements. But some do. Most women won't meet firefighter requirements but about 4% are doing so. What's the problem?

Most men don't either. There is a reason there are such low numbers of population who do either (I am in no way saying being a firefighter is as tough as a SEAL, but similar general concepts as far as requiring physical ability and physical training).

However, if somebody passes all of the tests there is no reason to deny them based on gender.

Quote: Gandler

As for generations of unhappy women? I am not a woman. But, I would take being a woman in 2021 over a woman in 1951 any day, its not even close..... The idea that women were more happy 50-100 years ago is laughable. No woman is forced into any role (not in America anyway), if she wants to be a stay at home mother society applauds her, if she wants to work society applauds her, if she wants to stay single and devote her whole life to a specific career or goal society applauds her, its totally her choice, as it should be. All I am saying is women should be able to choose whatever they want to do, and if they meet the qualification they should be able to do it, that should not be far out concept.....

If she wants to say home and mother, society applauds her? Where are you living?

Remember this?



I can imagine it a young woman in HS tells the guidance counselor she wants to stay home and be a mother. Sorry, but we as a society tell women they are wasting their lives if they want to stay home and mother. We have for decades. And the results have not been good.

In any case, you are confusing the idea of "woman choosing what they want to do" with "having a gender neutral society." Perhaps you do not really see what the gender warriors are after.

I was once the only guy on a work team, once two women went off about how they wished it was like the old days where they could stay home and mother. But the worst is the women who think they can "have it all" and outsource the raising of their kids. The kids are simply an accessory like a handbag and A8 car. These women think if they are not doing it all they are doing nothing. But I digress from the "gender neutral society" thing. I do not want women in the men's room with me. I do not want boys competing in girl's sports because they cannot cut it with the boys.

I want people to understand men and women are not interchangeable.

On February 4, 2021:

Johnson & Johnson Announces Submission of Application to the U.S. FDA for Emergency Use Authorization of its Vaccine Candidate

Also on February 4, 2021:

FDA Announces Advisory Committee Meeting to Discuss Janssen Biotech Inc.’s COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate

Quote:

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has scheduled a meeting of its Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) on Feb. 26, 2021, to discuss the request for emergency use authorization (EUA) for a COVID-19 vaccine from Janssen Biotech Inc.

Hmmmmm, let me see if I understand this correctly. It has been reported non-stop that we are in the midst of a global pandemic and the chinese flu is killing thousands a Americans daily. Dementia joe bidumb has said that defeating the chinese flu is his number 1 priority. Dementia joe bidumb’s FDA is run by a dementia joe bidumb appointed Commissioner, Janet Woodcock. The FDA decides to wait over 3 weeks before even discussing the request for the EUA, claiming that they need this time to thoroughly evaluate the data and information submitted.

If the pandemic is soooo bad and the administration's #1 priority, why not work non-stop around the clock reviewing the information???

How many more Americans is bidumb going to kill!!!

P.S. It has been reported that there were 5,427 chinese flu deaths on February 12, 2021. I believe that this is the HIGHEST daily death tolls reported since the pandemic started.

Quote: AZDuffman

Did you read the post?

Yeah, I read that you think the matter is settled to how you think things should be. It wasn't.

Quote: AZDuffman

If she wants to say home and mother, society applauds her? Where are you living?

Remember this?



I can imagine it a young woman in HS tells the guidance counselor she wants to stay home and be a mother. Sorry, but we as a society tell women they are wasting their lives if they want to stay home and mother. We have for decades. And the results have not been good.

In any case, you are confusing the idea of "woman choosing what they want to do" with "having a gender neutral society." Perhaps you do not really see what the gender warriors are after.

I was once the only guy on a work team, once two women went off about how they wished it was like the old days where they could stay home and mother. But the worst is the women who think they can "have it all" and outsource the raising of their kids. The kids are simply an accessory like a handbag and A8 car. These women think if they are not doing it all they are doing nothing. But I digress from the "gender neutral society" thing. I do not want women in the men's room with me. I do not want boys competing in girl's sports because they cannot cut it with the boys.

I want people to understand men and women are not interchangeable.

Men and women are not interchangeable in terms of biology.

However, a gender neutral society is what allows women to choose what they want to do. It does not mean that it ignores basic biology, but it allows anyone who can meet the requirements for a job can do that job.

I am not Clinton fan, but I do not see anything wrong with that quote, she chose to work, I don't see an issue.

What is stopping those two women from staying home with their kids? Unless they are not married or they require two incomes it is their choice to work. I will say we live in a society where it is hard to have a family on a single income (for middle class people) so often both parents are forced to work, this probably says more about our economy than social view. But, I have no issue with women having a choice to work when they want or do what they are qualified to do, anymore than I have an issue with men doing what they want or are qualified to do.

I would be concerned about an out of shape man with poor critical thinking skills being a firefighter, not because he is a man, but because of his other attributes......