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Why aren't battery power vehicles cheaper?
| June 28th, 2021 at 10:11:38 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Did he actually say 26 lead acid batteries weight 1175 lbs that had to be replaced after only 450 discharges? Wow! I wonder what the NiMH batteries weighed?The 70-90 miles would be 55 miles using present day standards. Is a J-car a Chevrolet Cavalier? As near as I can tell there are a dozen vehicles whose MSRP begins under $20K today $13,600 2021 Chevrolet Spark $14,295 2021 Mitsubishi Mirage $14,930 2021 Nissan Versa $17,490 2021 Kia Soul $17,890 2021 Kia Forte $18,750 2021 Hyundai Venue $18,795 2021 Subaru Impreza S18,900 2021 Hyundai Veloster $18,995 2021 Volkswagen Jetta $19,000 2021 Chevrolet Trailblazer $19,825 2021 Toyota Corolla $19,995 2021 Ford EcoSport These 12 models accounted for only 5% of vehicles sold in 2020 with only the Toyota Corolla being in the top dozen models, but if this price tier vanishes with the conversion to BEVs that is still possibly a million buyers a year that can't buy a new private vehicle. |
| June 28th, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18213 |
I heard it that way. Maybe they meant 450 "full" discharges but who knows.
Yes, and clones. It was a perfect example of how you can sell a mediocre car if you have the dealer network to give it push.
Affordable cars have been getting squeezed out for some years now. Thing is most people would rather a nicer used car than a lesser new one. Since the 2000s leases got standardized at 3 years. 1/3 of new cars are leased. So you have this group taking depreciation for folks like myself who cannot afford such a car new but need or want more than a subcompact. I did the cheapest-new-car-available and it worked for that part of my life. Today I do some hauling and like many guys over 40 now want a beefier car than the smallest out there. The President is a fink. |
| June 28th, 2021 at 2:54:21 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Yes the Ford Fiesta (2019), Nissan Micra (2019), Smart Fortwo (2019), Fiat 500 (2019), Toyota Yaris (2020), Honda Fit (2020), and Chevrolet Sonic (2020) have all been discontinued. But they still sold half a million vehicles in 2020 in a year when total vehicle sales were down dramatically. That is still enough to form the basis of a lawsuit if there are no vehicles in the price range after the ban on gasoline cars goes into effect in California. $18,995 2021 Volkswagen Jetta 90,829 $17,890 2021 Kia Forte 84,997 $17,490 2021 Kia Soul 71,772 $19,995 2021 Ford EcoSport 60,544 $14,930 2021 Nissan Versa 48,272 $18,795 2021 Subaru Impreza 43,628 $19,000 2021 Chevrolet Trailblazer 34,292 $13,600 2021 Chevrolet Spark 33,480 $14,295 2021 Mitsubishi Mirage 19,135 $18,750 2021 Hyundai Venue 17,587 S18,900 2021 Hyundai Veloster 6,785 In May 2021 in Norway where 60% of vehicle sales were full electric, 22% plug in hybrids, and some unknown percentage non plug in hybrids the average transaction price for a new vehicle is now over $62K in USD. The electric Mustang is very popular. Oslo is very friendly to bicycles. I am sure that they will be accomodating to electric Mopeds and electric scooters. They also have an extensive metro system and inter-city trains.  |
| June 28th, 2021 at 4:14:34 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18213 |
Assuming someone cares about people on the low end. Lets compare it to something else. Houses. Look at how few entry level homes are built. Levittown was the age of the affordable home. By the 1970s affordable new homes were really no longer being built. Today the family looking for a "starter" needs to look at old stock often not in great areas or else settle for renting either a house or more likely an apartment. Meanwhile local municipalities just put in codes that require homes be of a size that is the housing equivalent of telling automakers they have to build cars the size of a Ford Explorer. A fine car, but not easy on the wallet. The fact is pols just do not care about the little guy when they make these mandates. The President is a fink. |
| June 28th, 2021 at 4:33:03 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
If that opinion is widely held then vehicle policy may be the underpinnings of a political revolution in the USA. The following 13 states and Washington D.C. have adopted California’s vehicle emission standards including the greenhouse gas standards for motor vehicles: California Washington Oregon Colorado Rhode Island Massachusetts Connecticut Vermont Maine New York New Jersey Pennsylvania Maryland Washington D.C Delaware |
| June 28th, 2021 at 5:32:59 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18213 |
Why do you think there was such a blood battle when Trump tried to take away California's antiquated right to set their own emission standards? Cars have historically meant freedom. The left seems hell bent on getting as many people as possible into higher density housing and saying they should use light rail and other public transport to get around. Getting people out of cars will take time, but they will start at the bottom of the market. The President is a fink. |
| June 28th, 2021 at 5:44:04 PM permalink | |
| JCW09 Member since: Aug 27, 2018 Threads: 12 Posts: 847 | Paco, is anyone studying carbon emissions per mile on EV's vs. ICV's? I know there is the MPGe rating on EV's, but my understanding is that is an energy rating vs. an emissions rating. Has anyone done the comparison of carbon footprint per mile for EV's vs. ICV's? It would vary based on how the electricity used in the EV is produced. In the US we are 40% Nat Gas/20% Coal/20% Nuke/20% Renewable (15% of which is Hydro & Wind)? India electric generation is 55% coal, China is 62% coal, so the EV impact there would be smaller than the US France is 70% nuclear power, so EV's in France would have a greater emissions impact than EV's in the US. Hope you can share anything that looks at emissions per mile in EV's vs ICV's Def. of Liar - "A Person Who Tells Lies" / "I lied. Deal with it" - ams288 |
| June 29th, 2021 at 2:59:31 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18213 |
Highly doubtful. Most people will say, "See, no exhaust pipe! Clean!" The President is a fink. |
| June 30th, 2021 at 6:33:16 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Toyota is insistent that they have done all the computer modelling and the mining operations to switch the entire US fleet to Battery Electric Vehicles will create huge carbon emissions and ecological damage. They favor a three prong approach (1) full hybrids based on their technology developed for the Prius; full hybrids are not plugged in but generate their own electricity from the gasoline engine, and the electric motor shares the propulsion, (2) plug in hybrids that run for a certain number of miles on pure electric motor (25 miles for Prius Prime, and 42 miles for RAV4 Prime), and (3) finally pure electric vehicles. These five Toyota models have a base price for an internal combustion engine, and an additional charge for a hybrid engine that provides better mpg $20,025 COROLLA $3,575 $25,045 CAMRY $2,225 $26,250 RAV4 $2,250 $35,085 HIGHLANDER $3,650 $36,125 AVALON $975 These three Toyota models are only offered as hybrids $24,525 PRIUS $32,570 VENZA $34,460 SIENNA These two Toyota models are plug-in hybrids $28,220 PRIUS Prime (25 miles of electric only) 8.8 kWh battery $38,250 RAV4 Prime (42 miles of electric only) 17.1 kWh battery These Toyota models with larger internal combustion engines are not available as electrified versions yet $26,400 TACOMA $34,025 TUNDRA $36,765 4RUNNER As of today, Toyota is not selling a pure battery electric vehicle. Toyota believes that this multi-prong approach should be the proper interim strategy until fuel cell vehicles are a viable alternative. Of course, Toyota's argument is losing adherents, and the company has decided to produce two battery electric vehicles for the 2022 or 2023 model years. These vehicles will probably have 75 kWh batteries. Other scientists warn that the global rush to secure the raw materials for batteries will recreate the same results as OPEC in the 1970s. Scientists Warn: Battery Components May Become A New Type Of Oil Children mining for battery cobalt in the Congo |
| July 11th, 2021 at 3:44:47 PM permalink | |
| Tanko Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 0 Posts: 1988 | "Rodents chow down on Teslas, causing thousands in damage" Possibly due to the use of soy oil in wire insulation. “They opened the glove compartment and a rodent fell out,”. |