Black Lives Matter

Quote: gamerfreak

https://vimeo.com/793509012

OK, there it is, thanks

the assholes at NBC put out a 26 minute video that shows none of this

Let's put a case in a simple for instance.

Let's say you're stopped for a legitimate traffic violation like a tail light out. There's nothing else you're wanted for.

In the middle of the stop you just run away.

How much force should be used on you if any to get you?

Btw, all I've heard on this guy, is that it was for some traffic altercation of some sort.

Quote: rxwine

Let's put a case in a simple for instance.

Let's say you're stopped for a legitimate traffic violation like a tail light out. There's nothing else you're wanted for.

In the middle of the stop you just run away.

How much force should be used on you if any to get you?

Btw, all I've heard on this guy, is that it was for some traffic altercation of some sort.

Here is the timeline as I have gathered:

1. Police stop car for unknown reason. They claimed he was driving recklessly, but the chief has police stated they have not been able to substantiate any probable cause for the stop.
2. They did not try to talk to the guy like a normal traffic stop. They immediately open his car door and yank him out by his shirt like a rag doll.
3. The victim tries to deescalate immediately and say he’s cooperating
4. Instead, fists, tasers, pepper spray come out immediately.
5. Keep in mind it’s 5-1 at this point, with 5 linebacker sized cops and 1 scrawny dude. They continue to use force without any meaningful effort to detain.
6. Somehow the victim is able to stand back up and start running towards his house, which is about 2 blocks away.
7. Police chase the victim and tackle him about 80 yards from his home. This is why you hear him screaming for his mother, he thinks she may actually be able to hear him.
8. This is where the beat down is captured on the pole camera (see Vimeo link in my last post). At some point they stand him up, form a circle around him with his hands behind his back, and pummel him.
9. No medical aid was rendered for at least 20 minutes. When the paramedics arrived on scene they spent some time talking to the cops about fantasy football before attending to the victim.

Even ignoring everything afterwards, these cops broke the law from the very beginning of the interaction with a 4th amendment violation.

Quote: gamerfreak

Here is the timeline as I have gathered:

1. Police stop car for unknown reason. They claimed he was driving recklessly, but the chief has police stated they have not been able to substantiate any probable cause for the stop.

I'd guess either he was legitimately pulled over or the cops had a hard-on for him from some previous interactions, or even concurrent evasion attempt

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2. They did not try to talk to the guy like a normal traffic stop. They immediately open his car door and yank him out by his shirt like a rag doll.

makes the latter cases above quite likely

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3. The victim tries to deescalate immediately and say he’s cooperating

not so sure he wasn't saying one thing and doing another, but on the face of it your description might be right. At least a little unclear you have to admit. That they were very angry is without doubt. If your scenario is accurate, then they were going to have to get rid of bodycam footage. Maybe they were used to being able to do that.

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4. Instead, fists, tasers, pepper spray come out immediately.
5. Keep in mind it’s 5-1 at this point, with 5 linebacker sized cops and 1 scrawny dude. They continue to use force without any meaningful effort to detain.

yet he did get away. He was really pretty good at it, he briefly got away again the second time.

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6. Somehow the victim is able to stand back up and start running towards his house, which is about 2 blocks away.
7. Police chase the victim and tackle him about 80 yards from his home. This is why you hear him screaming for his mother, he thinks she may actually be able to hear him.
8. This is where the beat down is captured on the pole camera (see Vimeo link in my last post). At some point they stand him up, form a circle around him with his hands behind his back, and pummel him.

I guess they didn't know about the pole camera, eh?

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9. No medical aid was rendered for at least 20 minutes. When the paramedics arrived on scene they spent some time talking to the cops about fantasy football before attending to the victim.

very inexcusable, agree

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Even ignoring everything afterwards, these cops broke the law from the very beginning of the interaction with a 4th amendment violation.

If that happened, I'm still thinking previous interactions. I'm ready now to believe these are Bad Cops after seeing the pertinent pole camera footage, they could be capable of anything. I'm relating what I see as most likely. It could be as disgusting as an interaction where they told him they would beat him up if they ever saw him again in that area. I have a hard time believing it is a case of driving-while-Black. But these are Bad Cops.

I have actually been pretty out of the loop with police stuff. But, I just recently saw coverage of this (within the last hour) and some people older gentlemen who hang out at the carwash were talking about it earlier (and I assumed it would be another case of white cops killing a black man, which was an incorrect assumption).

I don't know why he was stopped (nobody seems to), though the cops were said to be part of an anti-gang task force so they may have thought he was somebody else (or maybe not, maybe he was exactly who they were looking for, I don't know anything about his background, and I have not looked into it).

He definitely resisted arrest. And, he definitely ran while they were attempting to cuff him. However, what happens next is inexcusable, they went him to death with batons. Even if it turns out that he was a gang member on the run this is not an acceptable use of force. And, then the refusal to call for aid in a reasonable time is also beyond unacceptable. Criminal behavior.

Though the one thing I would push back on is everyone talking about racist cops. All five cops that were rightfully fired (and I am assuming are charged or hopefully soon will be) were clearly black (at least in the mugshots that I just saw in an article, I actually did not know this earlier today looking at the body cam footage because of the winter clothes). So, this is clearly not a race issue. It is certainly a training and policy issues, unless this was just a rogue gang unit that thinks they can play by their own rules with a vigilante complex over people they deem to be a threat to the community (which is also possible, and ironically makes them just as bad as the gangs they are supposed to be combating).

Quote: Gandler

Though the one thing I would push back on is everyone talking about racist cops. All five cops that were rightfully fired (and I am assuming are charged or hopefully soon will be) were clearly black (at least in the mugshots that I just saw in an article, I actually did not know this earlier today looking at the body cam footage because of the winter clothes). So, this is clearly not a race issue. It is certainly a training and policy issues, unless this was just a rogue gang unit that thinks they can play by their own rules with a vigilante complex over people they deem to be a threat to the community (which is also possible, and ironically makes them just as bad as the gangs they are supposed to be combating).

For the record, I don’t think this incident (or police brutality at large) is a race issue.

However, it’s completely conceivable that someone could be racist against their own race.

Think about Samuel L Jackson’s character in Django Unchained.

Quote: gamerfreak

For the record, I don’t think this incident (or police brutality at large) is a race issue.

However, it’s completely conceivable that someone could be racist against their own race.

Think about Samuel L Jackson’s character in Django Unchained.

I think race does matter for these interactions (at least as far as perception).
Can you imagine if 5 white cops in the South chased down and beat a black man to death after a questionable traffic stop?
The dynamics and talking point would be completely different.

Even this morning when I was having this described to me, it was odd because there was a lot more defense of the cops (not direct more of a roundabout defense talking about how they probably grew up in bad conditions that led to them having a gang like mentality and had poor training instead of instantly condemning them or calling them racist which I found odd, I just assumed hearing the story that the five cops in the south would be white). I think this definitely has an effect on the perception and discourse (if it should or not is a separate issue).

However, I think there is more to this story. 5 cops in a gang taskforce make a questionable stop, force him out of the car, he runs, and they beat him to death. This does not seem random. This is speculation, but I think they knew or at least thought they knew more than they are letting on for them to do this (maybe it will come out at the trial).
At the end of the day it does not matter, because even if he turns out to be the top gang leader in TN (I am not saying that he was), what they did was unacceptable. But, there has to be more to this story than these 5 cops being sickos.

Quote: gamerfreak

For the record, I don’t think this incident (or police brutality at large) is a race issue.

However, it’s completely conceivable that someone could be racist against their own race.

Think about Samuel L Jackson’s character in Django Unchained.

There is a prejudice.among some Blacks regarding Light skinned and dark skinned

I can tell one thing about this killing that is DEFINITELY racist ( and partly sexist). NO ONE is going after the Memphis police chief! If the Memphis Police Chief was your stereotypical old White guy he’d be excoriated in the press for ‘the culture he allowed’, for ‘failing to weed out bad apples’, for ‘not using proper training’, etc…. But the police chief is a Black woman, so just crickets….

Once again, one obviously egregious crime against a Black man will cost countless other Black lives, as the backlash will make it just not worth it for good cops to stop Black criminals because the cops are afraid for their own personal safety when a situation escalates. And how their actions are perceived.

I’m sure Terapined will find one for me, but you don’t here much about dead Black arrestees who did not resist arrest? Just a coincidence, or is complying with an arresting officer, REGARDLESS of the reason for the arrest, just common sense?

Quote: SOOPOO

I can tell one thing about this killing that is DEFINITELY racist ( and partly sexist). NO ONE is going after the Memphis police chief! If the Memphis Police Chief was your stereotypical old White guy he’d be excoriated in the press for ‘the culture he allowed’, for ‘failing to weed out bad apples’, for ‘not using proper training’, etc…. But the police chief is a Black woman, so just crickets….

Once again, one obviously egregious crime against a Black man will cost countless other Black lives, as the backlash will make it just not worth it for good cops to stop Black criminals because the cops are afraid for their own personal safety when a situation escalates. And how their actions are perceived.

I’m sure Terapined will find one for me, but you don’t here much about dead Black arrestees who did not resist arrest? Just a coincidence, or is complying with an arresting officer, REGARDLESS of the reason for the arrest, just common sense?

I mean to be fair she fired them almost instantly (this is very rare), and helped facilitate the charges. And, released the body cam footage within weeks. And, disbanded the unit they were a part of for review. And, has been fully transparent with the process (from what I can see).
Unless I am missing something, I do not see what you are saying she did wrong?

Many police chiefs get criticized covering/excusing, stalling on releasing cam footage for years (and finding reasons to redact it), not making public comments, and not firing the cops (none of which she did, in fact the complete opposite).

I mean she handled this tragic situation as perfectly as you can from a PR/leadership standpoint in my view, I don't know what more should be expected of her?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/us/tyre-nichols-protests-saturday/index.html