General Election 2024

Quote: kenarman

For those that belief that the civil war was primarily about slavery a quote from Lincoln.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

What did the secessionist states have to say on the subject?

Quote: kenarman

For those that belief that the civil war was primarily about slavery a quote from Lincoln.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

I don’t think the fact that the civil war was primarily about slavery is up for debate.

Anyone who believes otherwise may be too dumb to function.

Nikki Haley learned this the hard way.

Quote: kenarman

For those that belief that the civil war was primarily about slavery a quote from Lincoln.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

Except the original quote by the audience member didn't say that. Here's what he said after Haley stopped saying what the war was about.

Quote:

“In the year 2023, it’s astonishing to me that you answer that question without mentioning the word slavery.”

Quote: kenarman

For those that belief that the civil war was primarily about slavery a quote from Lincoln.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

Lincoln was always anti-slavery. That is why he joined the anti-slavery Republican Party.

He had already written a draft of the Emancipation Proclamation and was not about to tip his hand to the public before issuing it.

This is the last paragraph of that letter, which we never see:

"I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free."

Only four months after he wrote that response to Horace Greely, he removed all doubt about where he stood, when he issued the Emancipation Proclamation and freed the slaves.

oh, good, we can really go nuts with this

the essential ingredient for the Civil War was slavery, there, I said it, and I'll bookmark this in case somebody says I didn't say it

but it's not as simple as the way people today want to claim. The North did not go to war to end slavery, which seems to be a notion that is gaining ground these days, complete with arrogant pride on the matter ... nor did the South go to war over it *directly* [it was the South that started it, which makes the notion of the North going to war to end slavery a bit odd right there]

The irreconcilable difference was not slavery per se, but the expansion of slavery. To be continued

Quote: kenarman

For those that belief that the civil war was primarily about slavery a quote from Lincoln.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

You can definitely use Lincoln to clear up a lot of modern notions, but I would not posit that the war was 'not primarily about slavery' at the heart of it, even if other notions about it need clearing up

Nikki Haley said a dumb thing.

No need to bend yourselves into pretzels trying to cover for the dumb thing she said.

Quote: ams288

Nikki Haley said a dumb thing.

No need to bend yourselves into pretzels trying to cover for the dumb thing she said.

Agree. I can't make much sense of what she said. But I wish she was the candidate, not Trump

Quote: ams288

Nikki Haley said a dumb thing.

No need to bend yourselves into pretzels trying to cover for the dumb thing she said.

Problem is any Republican politician must appeal to the sizeable racist elements in their party in order to get elected. Which means we have we have Haley being dumb and Trump being dumb and fascist and racist.

Quote: odiousgambit

Agree. I can't make much sense of what she said. But I wish she was the candidate, not Trump

Maybe SCOTUS will throw you a bone and save the GOP from themselves by disqualifying Donny.

Nikki performs much better than him against Biden in most polls.