Griner swap

Quote: Gandler

I Russia won this round.

I think most people would agree with this.

Quote: Gandler

It's like when somebody who spends years bashing their parents, call their parents for money help when their car breaks down knowing that their parents will have to borrow money from the mafia to help them.

But, really that is not the biggest issue, even though people have been hyperfocusing on it, we traded probably one of, if not the, most strategic military resources in recent history for an athlete. Russia won this trade.

Don't take my word for it, look up Bout's history, he is both as impressive (his military and intelligence background and education), and terrifying (what he did with his skills), as it gets, it's hard to get much worse. And, we gave him up for a sports celebrity. Russia won this round.

And, yes I would feel the same way about the most patriotic mainstream athlete.

I'm still waiting to hear how she bashed America??????
Did she bash America????????????
I don't think so but maybe I am wrong
What has she said??????????????
Did she use the word " bash"??????????
Do you consider me an America basher :-)
Is there a list?
Bashing is a right American soldiers died to protect
Can a basher be less of an American citizen then a non basher.
Isn't Twitter all about bashing :-)
Don't we bash each other here. It's not so bad

Quote: terapined

I'm still waiting to hear how she bashed America??????
Did she bash America????????????
I don't think so but maybe I am wrong
What has she said??????????????
Did she use the word " bash"??????????
Do you consider me an America basher :-)
Is there a list?
Bashing is a right American soldiers died to protect
Can a basher be less of an American citizen then a non basher.
Isn't Twitter all about bashing :-)
Don't we bash each other here. It's not so bad

She said that the National Anthem should not be played at sporting events because it was adopted at a time when America did not have equal rights, and America is once again showing that it does not have equal rights (paraphrasing).

She also stated that she refused to be in the building while the Anthem played (if this was true or not, don't know, don't watch sports, especially not WBNA). Though it would be also interesting to see if she refused to be in the building when the Russian Anthem played....

Quote: Gandler

She said that the National Anthem should not be played at sporting events because it was adopted at a time when America did not have equal rights, and America is once again showing that it does not have equal rights (paraphrasing).

I would be very happy if they quit playing the anthem at sporting events. Our country is trying to indoctrinate people just the way we blame other countries for doing.

Quote: Gandler

She said that the National Anthem should not be played at sporting events because it was adopted at a time when America did not have equal rights, and America is once again showing that it does not have equal rights (paraphrasing).

She also stated that she refused to be in the building while the Anthem played (if this was true or not, don't know, don't watch sports, especially not WBNA). Though it would be also interesting to see if she refused to be in the building when the Russian Anthem played....

Are you some kind of anthem freak.
It's just a song
I don't think the anthem should be played at sports arenas. These days, many Profesional sports are fulled with international players. Especially the NBA.
She is right on the money regarding Americans have less equal rights now then in the past
Don't you watch the news
Women do not have equal rights in this country due to abortion laws.
How is not wanting to be in a building while the anthem is being played offensive???????????
It's beyond absurd
Are some crazy righties checking to see who is in the parking lot still tailgating while the anthem is being played.
The horror
Count me guilty lol

Quote: DRich

I would be very happy if they quit playing the anthem at sporting events. Our country is trying to indoctrinate people just the way we blame other countries for doing.

We freakin' NEED to be "indoctrinated" if this fragile experiment in democracy is to survive.

It s patriotism that induces / allows young men to accept the reality that they might die while defending this country, and without instilling patriotism we'll be unable to staff the armed forces.

I mean, why else would you join the army?

The increasing progressive "wokeness" is not helping things at all viz. national defense.

Quote: missedhervee

We freakin' NEED to be "indoctrinated" if this fragile experiment in democracy is to survive.

Is it just me or does "indoctrinate" and "democracy" seem to be rather diametrically opposed?

"Unless we each conform, unless we obey orders, unless we follow our leaders blindly, there is no possible way we can remain free." Frank Burns

We need a core of patriots in order to survive.

Most liberals are pussies, i.e. they won't enlist and would resist being drafted.

Freedom has a cost.

Quote: missedhervee

We need a core of patriots in order to survive.

Not for long. Wars are going to become anonymous. It will be drone planes, drone ships, drone tanks, and eventually drone soldiers. All we need are engineers.

Quote: DRich

I would be very happy if they quit playing the anthem at sporting events. Our country is trying to indoctrinate people just the way we blame other countries for doing.

It's actually an interesting history if you look at the examples of why the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, and the National Anthem at sporting events and such started to become big in the 1950s, people in charge were afraid with how unified Russia and China were, and how ununified America was becoming. It was essentially a direct response to Russian nationalism.

Should it continue to this day? I think it should be up to the school and the sporting event.

It's not something I care much about except when people go out of their way to publish why they are protesting. If she just shut up and did it I would never know she existed (until she was arrested by Russia), but she of course had to make sure the media knew for an obvious ploy to get attention.

The only reason I can name a female basketball player is because of her anthem antics.

Quote: terapined

Are you some kind of anthem freak.

Yes, its an epic piece of America history, during the first war where we were really fighting for our survival. I love it.

Quote: terapined

It's just a song

No, its a song deemed important enough to be labeled the National Anthem (and the most recognized anthem in the world).

Quote: terapined

I don't think the anthem should be played at sports arenas. These days, many Profesional sports are fulled with international players. Especially the NBA.

That is fine, its up to the sport/league/stadium, I don't really care, but if it is played it should be respected.

The ratio of international players is irrelevant, look at baseball teams in some Asians countries, its 99% International players, guess which anthem they still play?

Quote: terapined

She is right on the money regarding Americans have less equal rights now then in the past

This is patently absurd. We are on the cusp of a pure equal society on so many fronts. The idea that things are less equal than even 10 years ago (forget 50) when marriage equality was not guaranteed, sexual orientation was not a protected class, and Don't Ask Don't Tell existed, is absurd. Between me graduating High School and today, there was a massive shift in rights, and that is about 10 years, push it back 50 years or 150 years, and it was a whole other level of racism and inequality.

There are some setbacks, but more progress.

I would rather live in America than any other country in the world without hesitation, even the most backward parts of America.

Quote: terapined

Don't you watch the news

Not really, I mostly read news, I am not big on TV news.

Quote: terapined

Women do not have equal rights in this country due to abortion laws.

I agree this is a massive problem, and a massive failure on the part of the Democrats for being complacent and not pushing abortion legislation through all of these years.

This was not why she was protesting (plus this was before all of this). She was protesting because of BLM nonsense.

Quote: terapined

How is not wanting to be in a building while the anthem is being played offensive???????????
It's beyond absurd
Are some crazy righties checking to see who is in the parking lot still tailgating while the anthem is being played.
The horror
Count me guilty lol

It's not inherently offensive, but if you use it to grandstand it is. Again, if she quietly did this and kept to herself, I would not know she existed (well now I would), but prior to her Russia arrest.





At the end of the day, none of this matters much. This was an aside that I made, my main point was that it was a strategic blunder. Remember, I supported America fighting for her release while you were still saying she should be treated like anyone else arrested in Russia. I still think America should fight for such releases. My main opposition is the trade.

Do your research on Viktor Bout, and think about why Russia would suddenly want him back after all of these years. Look at the type of conflicts he was involved in the past, and look at what Russia is involved in now, and what they likely will be involved in soon. This does not require being an Intelligence Officer, its a simply logical pathway. Giving Bout back was a bad move, and we will soon regret it.



https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2011/11/03/international-arms-dealer-viktor-bout-convicted-new-york-terrorism-crimes

https://books.google.com/books/about/Merchant_of_Death.html?id=-c8mdTl29N0C


Remember during Obama's administration there was talk of trading Bout for Snowden shortly before Crimea? Link the chains.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/could-russia-swap-edward-snowden-for-viktor-bout/
(Honestly, this trade would be bad, but it would have been more beneficial, because it would return a traitor whose existence in Russia actually damages U.S. security, instead we got somebody arrested overseas for a pot vape..... Hardly, the military asset of the year....).

We gave up the most important Russian (probably any) asset that we have had in the last ten years for a basketball player with a drug problem. This was not a win for American strength.

Again, I am glad she was released, and she got a harsher sentence than she should have, but I am not happy we lost Bout for a somewhat sport celebrity.