Original Sin?

If prayer was all about getting whatever we want from God and if it has been shown to fail to be effective then as you like to say there would be no Christians.

So obviously you are wrong about what prayer is and the true measure of its effectiveness.

Quote: FrGamble

So obviously you are wrong about what prayer is and the true measure of its effectiveness.

So what's with all these promises Jesus made
in the NT about. Sounds pretty clear to me.
Most people take this at face value and
pray for clear traffic, a winning lottery ticket,
and that their wife won't be mad at them.
Jesus told them to.

"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." Matthew 21:21

"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Mark 11:24:

"You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." John 14:14

"Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven"Matthew 18:19

"And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up."James 5:15

If you think most people believe in Jesus because they think He can give them a parking spot of the winning numbers you are more confused than I thought.

Quote: FrGamble

If you think most people believe in Jesus because they think He can give them a parking spot of the winning numbers you are more confused than I thought.

I'm not so sure. The latest PEW report, which
I just read, says 7 years ago Catholics were
1/5 th of the US, now they're 1/4 th. In 7
years atheists have gone from 15% to
23%. Atheism could easily reach 30% in
another 10 years. People just don't need
the superstition of religion in their lives
anymore, it serves no purpose.

It is the false type of religion that you are talking about that many, including myself, have left behind. The tragedy is that while people don't need superstition in their lives, they do need truth. Some don't even care about such things as truth anymore or even deny its existence.

Quote: FrGamble

The tragedy is that while people don't need superstition in their lives, they do need truth. .

Christianity is all superstition, and old superstition
at that. It's being left behind because it doesn't
work, and people see that. Reincarnation research
isn't helping, when 25% of adults now say they
believe it's true in the US, in some EU countries
it's approaching 50%. Organized religion is a
crutch, and as such, it's being rejected at a faster
and faster rate.

Christianity doesn't work?!? Look around at our culture and civilization, this is in a large part due to Christianity. Christianity also works to help us understand ourselves. How can we be so good and at the same time struggle so much with being bad? The only viable answer is Original Sin. Christianity also answers our ultimate questions and desires about love and being loved, which is what we all want. Christianity works but people are leaving it behind because of misconceptions and materialism.

If you want an example of something that doesn't work you need only look to the disaster that atheism has lead to in the 20th century.

"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried." G.K. Chesterson

Quote: FrGamble

Look around at our culture and civilization, this is in a large part due to Christianity.

You mean the wiping out of the Native
Amer culture by Christians? I guess that did
work pretty well. The raping of the land
and pollution of the rivers, all because
of the Christian ethic that god put all
of this here for US to do with as we please.
That worked very well too.

Quote:

If you want an example of something that doesn't work you need only look to the disaster that atheism has lead to in the 20th century.

Because Hitler and Stalin and Mao were
supposed atheists? They were far more
antireligion than they were atheists.

'Antireligion is opposition to religion. Antireligion is distinct from atheism (the absence of a belief in deities) and antitheism (an opposition to belief in deities)... The term may be used to describe opposition to organized religion, or to describe a broader opposition to any form of belief in the supernatural or the divine.'

Marx and Lenin saw religion as a negative
to human development. The felt religion
was the opiate of the people, used by the
rich ruling class to keep the common people
oppressed. They were antireligion, not atheist,
no matter what they called themselves. An
atheist has no dog in the hunt, he doesn't
care one way or another if religion exists or
not.

Quote: Evenbob

You mean the wiping out of the Native
Amer culture by Christians? I guess that did
work pretty well.

Are you talking about the American government?

Quote:

The raping of the land
and pollution of the rivers, all because
of the Christian ethic that god put all
of this here for US to do with as we please.
That worked very well too.

What do you mean by this? I know God said to care for the Earth and specifically not to do as we please. You might be referring to those whose god is money or profit, certainly not Christians. I'm looking forward to the Pope's upcoming encyclical letter on the environment.

Quote:

Because Hitler and Stalin and Mao were
supposed atheists? They were far more
antireligion than they were atheists.

Is this what I sound like in trying to get out of something and make apologies for what I know history shows me to be wrong? If so, I apologize.

Quote: FrGamble

What do you mean by this?

It was the Christian
ethic to wipe out the heathens and use the
land for whatever they wanted. This is news
to you?

Quote:

Is this what I sound like in trying to get out of something and make apologies

You just refuse to understand atheism. It's
antireligionism that you're talking about,
not atheism.