Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

I can only handle one crazy person telling me !

What's crazy is, a really smart guy like
you defending the most ridiculous and
archaic ideas because you're handlers
require it of you. This is why Ed quit
the priesthood. He saw thru the flim
flam eventually, saw what a sham it
was, and ran the other direction as
fast as he could. He's regretted his
days as a priest for the last 50 years
and still beats himself up for being
such a fool.

Quote: Dalex64

if it is 100% effective then it does not leave open the possibility of conception.

Yes, it is the best and safest way to plan your family. When and married man and woman have sex without the use of artificial rubber barriers or without one of them filling themselves with harmful artificial hormones to inhibit pregnancy they are engaging in a natural act of mutual love making. In doing this they are corresponding to the natural rhythms of a woman's cycle and can decide together at any time and for a good reason when or if they would like to try and conceive. It is not immoral for a couple to decide that for a multitude of good reasons now is not the time to have a child. In such cases they use nature, science, and natural law to help them find the best way to give themselves completely to each other without causing harm to each other.

Quote: Nareed

NFP raises the risk of ovarian and uterine cancer, and can cause pregnancy. You'd better have a point.

You better not be serious.

Quote:

The reason why Catholic families tend to be so small, right? Oh, my bad. They're soooooooo not small, unless they resort to actual methods of contraception like the pill.

But surely you know this.

Surely if you would break out of your contraceptive brainwashing you would see what happens when good people practice Natural Family Planning. It causes family planning to be a regular topic of discussion and a regular reexamining of the reasons they chose to or not to have children. So often people just have their wife go on the pill and it is not discussed until many years later when the desire to have children grows to much to be ignored. Then of course you have to get off the pill and over the lasting effects it has on a woman's reproductive system. When you practice Natural Family Planning you also don't look as children or pregnancy as some type of illness or problem that we need to protect ourselves from with a pill or a barrier. You see children as a natural gift and the reason for marriage and whether or not you are ready yet you are always thinking about the possibility.

Quote:

I can't in good conscience do as you ask. After all, your church admits they are conspiring to foster belief in imaginary beings. But they do so only to foster obedience and tribute to the church.

Oh, and did you forget we're at war?

The only imaginary being in our discussion is your conception of the Church. You and Evenbob make up this non existent being and then go to war against it. You are in an imaginary war against something that doesn't exist. If you would only know God and the saints that make up His Church you would ignore the many sinners that are part of the Church, the false conspiracy theories, and the pretend motivations that are foisted upon the Church by people who know nothing and only have an axe to grind.

Quote: Evenbob

Shoot this down, from NPR:

On his return trip from Asia, Pope Francis made strong statements supporting the church's ban on artificial means of birth control. He also said Catholics should practice "responsible parenthood" and don't have to breed "like rabbits."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/20/378559550/pope-francis-says-catholics-dont-need-to-breed-like-rabbits

I'm not shooting down the Pope's statements. Don't we all need to be responsible parents and not breed like rabbits without serious thought and consideration? What I am shooting down is your crazy and idiotic interpretation of those statements to think that the Pope is supportive of artificial contraception. Again just take your own advice and don't talk about things you know nothing about and we will be good.

Quote: FrGamble

You better not be serious.

Dead serious.

Quote:

Surely if you would break out of your contraceptive brainwashing

And we're done with this paragraph.

Quote:

The only imaginary being in our discussion is your conception of the Church.

That would be an imaginary institution, perhaps an entity. Certainly not a being.

Quote:

You are in an imaginary war against something that doesn't exist.

You can interpret it that way. But then I'd have to summon Sheldon Cooper and say "An understandable but not excusable mistake." I'm at war against you and every other person who wants to limit liberty in the name of their non-existent deity.

Quote:

If you would only know God and the saints that make up His Church [hopeless religious delusion removed](*)

If I had a dime for every religious person who's told me this, or something similar, I'd have a really large collection of dimes.

(*) The Sheldon is strong today

Quote: FrGamble

find the best way to give themselves completely to each other without causing harm to each other.

Give themselves to each other? Really? You
sound like a bad Victorian romance novel.
Sex is not like that at all, especially married
sex. It's just like everything else, she wants
it and you don't, so you do it anyway just
to get it over with. You want it and she
doesn't, same thing. Or you both want it
and do it for the 800th time. It's exercise,
it's a bodily function. Absolutely nothing
spiritual about it. My wife gets a kick
out of those middle aged people on TV
in the sex pill commercials. They hold
hands and stare into each others eyes
like 15 year old kids. My wife says obviously
they're newly weds because no real
married couple acts like such dorks.

Food is much more satisfying than sex.
With food, you always know you're going
to love your favorites. It's dependable.
In sex there is a lot of variables, it's
good sometimes, but mostly it's just
routine.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm not shooting down the Pope's statements..

The pope makes the rabbit comment because
that was the attitude of the Church forever.
No rubbers, no contraception, breed like
rabbits to keep pumping out new Catholics.
Now there are so many that the Church
can't service them all and the religion is
dying because of it.

Quote:

If you would only know God and the saints

Meaning if we were only as self
deluded as you are everything
would be great. You wanting to
drag everybody down to your
level is what's wrong with all
the missionary religions. You
just aren't happy unless you're
spreading your lies so we're
all as miserable as you are.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes, it is the best and safest way to plan your family. When and married man and woman have sex without the use of artificial rubber barriers or without one of them filling themselves with harmful artificial hormones to inhibit pregnancy they are engaging in a natural act of mutual love making. In doing this they are corresponding to the natural rhythms of a woman's cycle and can decide together at any time and for a good reason when or if they would like to try and conceive. It is not immoral for a couple to decide that for a multitude of good reasons now is not the time to have a child. In such cases they use nature, science, and natural law to help them find the best way to give themselves completely to each other without causing harm to each other.

You have drifted away from a mathematical statement and a conflict with the church's stated policy and have instead spewed more opinions about what you and the church believed is "best."


Which of these is false:
When used correctly, natural family planning is 100% effective.
Natural family Planning is the only acceptable way for non-abstenant married catholics to avoid unwanted pregnancies, because it leaves open the possibility of conception.

Here's the fly in the ointment of the
Church's argument that the pill causes
problems in some women so the Church
is against it. If they are oh so concerned
about the health of Catholic's, why is
alcohol not banned. Alcoholism is far
greater problem and causes far more
misery then the pill ever will.

Alcoholism is even widespread among
priests. Here's an article in a Catholic
paper:

Why Are so Many Priests Alcoholics? http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/08/25/why-are-so-many-priests-alcoholics/

This is why the health argument against
the pill just doesn't make sense. The
Church has made no moves to ban
alcohol from the Church or even from
the clergy. Yet they're oh so concerned
about the pill? No they're not, obviously.