Original Sin?

Have you looked at where that link comes from? There is more informationabout UFOs and other crazy stuff than I have seen in a long time. No matter what you think about Wikipedia the fact that you would propose that website as a legitimate source is to be honest a little scary. Read the Wikipedia articles about the sources from their statistics and much of it came from real reasearchers looking at the real documents. As you said there are records of these things. Don't turn to crackpots for your news, please.

Quote: FrGamble

I think a Jewish person might think that both the Christian and I can't be right, one of us is wrong.

I'm about to say something I'm going to regret saying. Before I do I must ask: but do you believe you're right and all Jews are wrong?

Now for the thing I'll regret forever:

This is from my last bout of broad tolerance for religion. If we grant the existence of an all-knowing, all-powerful deity, which also is at least billions of years old, why would it make sense that it would need one and only one narrow set of beliefs from a very diverse group of people it made in the first place?

Quote: FrGamble

Have you looked at where that link comes from? .

Could care less. With you, if it's not
sanctioned by the Church, like the
Wiki sites, it's bad info. You've made
that abundantly clear for over 2 years.
Been there, done that, ain't going there
again. I posted a link to a Jewish site
about the Inquisitions yesterday, and
what did you say.

That earlier link was leaps and bounds better than your most recent link which was frankly a disaster.

Do you really think Wikipedia is sponsored or accepted by the Church? Because I can show you lots of examples where I have very strong theological or philosophical problems with what is there. You are sounding paranoid and avoiding the issue. This is straight up history with strong evidence we can both look at. Why don't you find something that you disagree with in the Wiki articles and explain why you think they are wrong. We can look at the sources and both come to a true understanding of what happened.

Quote: Nareed

I'm about to say something I'm going to regret saying. Before I do I must ask: but do you believe you're right and all Jews are wrong?

Now for the thing I'll regret forever:

This is from my last bout of broad tolerance for religion. If we grant the existence of an all-knowing, all-powerful deity, which also is at least billions of years old, why would it make sense that it would need one and only one narrow set of beliefs from a very diverse group of people it made in the first place?

That is a great question and I don't think we need one and only one narrow set of beliefs. God's mercy can save all people who might believe very different things about Him. I would say with Vatican II that these others beliefs are not all wrong but that there are elements of deep truth found in them that leads honest seekers closer to God in unique ways.

Quote: FrGamble

That earlier link was leaps and bounds better than your most recent link which was frankly a disaster.

ARRGUH!!! You think EVERY link I post
is a disaster if it doesn't fit in with
your thin world view! How many times
have you said you're AMAZED at how
many bad links I can find.

What's going on is, the links aren't bad,
the info the Vatican has spoon fed you
is what's bad. It's impossible for anybody
to be as wrong as you claim I am on so
many different subjects. Probability says
I would hit one you would agree with
once in awhile.

You don't realize how deep you are into
the Church world view, you wear blinders
that that give you pencil thin tunnel vision.

Quote: FrGamble

I would say with Vatican II that these others beliefs are not all wrong but that there are elements of deep truth found in them that leads honest seekers closer to God in unique ways.

See, that's one regret already: they're not all wrong, as far as they correspond to Christianity, they have some elements of truth to them.

"Condescension is arrogance's obnoxious brat." Nareed

Quote: FrGamble

That earlier link was leaps and bounds better than your most recent link which was frankly a disaster.

Do you really think Wikipedia is sponsored or accepted by the Church? Because I can show you lots of examples where I have very strong theological or philosophical problems with what is there. You are sounding paranoid and avoiding the issue. This is straight up history with strong evidence we can both look at. Why don't you find something that you disagree with in the Wiki articles and explain why you think they are wrong. We can look at the sources and both come to a true understanding of what happened.

The multiple and near-constant bloodbaths perpetrated by the Church are extremely well documented. There's no use in having a link-posting war. We know the Inquisition happened. We know the Crusades happened. We know that the Church persecuted and often killed Jews. These are facts that are not within the realm of discussion of their accuracy or veracity.

The Catholic Church has much to apologize for. However, doing so would force them to step down from the moral high ground they claim. You seem to want to inhabit that same ground by claiming moral superiority over all those who are not believers. Deny it as you might, you've taken dozens of swipes at atheists and have insinuated over and over that they're not good or moral and that atheism leads to war, rape, murder, and unsightly blemishes. If so, one wonders how mostly atheist Europe has achieved its peace and prosperity of the last several decades. They have no Church to tell them how to behave. How do they manage? Can you answer that? Are they all evil?

Quote: Nareed

See, that's one regret already: they're not all wrong, as far as they correspond to Christianity, they have some elements of truth to them.

I would hope that my good Jewish and Muslim friends would extend to me the same courtesy. I would hope they wouldn't think that I was totally wrong but that there was something of what I believed that resonated with their beliefs.

"Relativists believe that everyone is right, which is the same as believing everyone is wrong.
Fundamentalists believe that everyone is wrong except for them.
I am neither."
FrGamble

Quote: Evenbob

It's impossible for anybody
to be as wrong as you claim I am on so
many different subjects.

I agree that it must take a lot of work on your part, I'm impressed.

No, seriously do you think Wikipedia is so flawed that it cannot present to us a starting point to rationally discuss these things and dive deeper into the facts?