Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Don't extrapolate from a mother who may have taught her son some twisted and evil teachings that the Church taught anything close.

Nope nope nope, not going there.
You ain't sucking me into performing the
due diligence AGAIN just because you have
a bad memory. What would be the point,
by next week you will have completely
forgotten it.

Quote: FrGamble

Don't extrapolate from a mother who may have taught her son some twisted and evil teachings that the Church taught anything close. Be careful and if what you mean to say is that Hitler had a bad mother who was Catholic just say that.

What he's saying, and I happen to agree with, is that Hitler's anti-Semitism wasn't something that he just dreamed up. The Catholic church had been drumming hatred of the Jews into its adherents' brains for centuries. He was raised as a good Catholic.

In fact, if you hated Jews, that was taken as ipso facto proof that you were a good Catholic. The Church was still spewing the "they killed Jesus" lie well PAST the Holocaust.

Quote: stinkingliberal

The current climate of freedom in (most of) Europe is due to their having RENOUNCED Christianity for the most part.

Renouncing Christinaity as the foundation of European civilization and its freedom is denying historical fact, the same thing you do in this rest of this really awful post.

Quote:

Religion resulted in the slaughter of hundred of millions of people over the last several centuries.

This is simply not true and again a little knowledge of history would teach you this. You seem to buy into myths as easily as Evenbob does. You are right I can't stop you from saying such ludicrious things but if you care about the actual facts and truths then you should stop yourself and stop embarassing yourself too.

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I agree that Communism was no fun and ultimately failed, but the centuries of rule of the various Czars were no picnic for Russia, either. The Communist government DID, in fact, raise the standard of living of the average Russian citizen, and while it did so with at times extreme brutality, it can't be denied that some aspects of Communism DID work. People used to routinely starve to death in Imperial Russia.

You cannot be saying that the slaughter of millions of innocent people was worth whatever good communism briefly did in Russia? By the way look up where real communism began and without the cost of oceans of blood. Hint, it is in the Book of Acts.

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At any rate, you can't ascribe the failures of Soviet Communism to its atheist stance.

No, and you can't say that its athestic mentality did anything to slow the repression and murder of innocent people. Why would you or anyone want to hold an idea that would allow such atrocities?

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A Christian Communist government would have been the same mess.

Absolutely it would not, it could not have been the same mess unless it renounced its Christianity. Again read the Book of Acts.

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And as far as mass atrocities throughout history are concerned--the vast majority of those were committed by Christian countries and leaders. Toss in a few Mongols (who were also religious people) for spice.

This is again a-historical myth that has no basis in reality. This time you don't have to go back to the Bible but only look at modern history. The 20th century was the bloodiest century in human history and more people died at the hands of non-religious relativists than all the centuries previous combined. I'm sorry if this doesn't fit into your worldview but doesn't stop it from being true.

Quote: stinkingliberal

What he's saying, and I happen to agree with, is that Hitler's anti-Semitism wasn't something that he just dreamed up. The Catholic church had been drumming hatred of the Jews into its adherents' brains for centuries. He was raised as a good Catholic.

How can you say this when good Catholics we now call saints like Edith Stein, Maximillian Kolbe, and John Paul II were the opposite of anti-semitic? You are taking the example of one deranged mother and the crazy son she raised as the entirety of the Church. Not only is that another straw men it doesn't make sense.

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In fact, if you hated Jews, that was taken as ipso facto proof that you were a good Catholic.

This goes beyond being offensive. If you want to continue to have a conversation please apologize, retract, and lets return to civility. How can you falsely accuse me of saying atheism leads to evil when in the same breath you say that Catholicism leads to hating Jews? I can't believe you wrote this?!?

Quote: FrGamble

How can you say this when good Catholics we now call saints like Edith Stein, Maximillian Kolbe, and John Paul II were the opposite of anti-semitic? You are taking the example of one deranged mother and the crazy son she raised as the entirety of the Church. Not only is that another straw men it doesn't make sense.



This goes beyond being offensive. If you want to continue to have a conversation please apologize, retract, and lets return to civility. How can you falsely accuse me of saying atheism leads to evil when in the same breath you say that Catholicism leads to hating Jews? I can't believe you wrote this?!?

Yeah, Hitler managed to convert the entire nation of Germany to Jew-hatred. Before that, every German citizen loved them, greeted them on the street with a "Mazeltov!" and a high-five, and contributed to Jewish relief organizations. And before that, the Catholic church NEVER persecuted the Jews. Nope, Never. Not at all. No siree EvenBob.

The Church, for centuries, actively taught that the Jews had killed Jesus and should be punished. Good Catholics were taught that killing Jews was a fast track to heaven. (For that matter, the Church also advocated killing cats, which led directly to a higher incidence of the plague in Catholic countries--look it up.)

I don't really care about the existence of a few saints. The fact of the matter is that Christianity has been at least as much a force for evil as for good in the world. Catholicism emerged as a particularly intolerant and violent sect in the Middle Ages. The symbol for Christianity should be not the cross, but the sword.

Quote: FrGamble

How can you say this when good Catholics we now call saints

In the Inquisitions the Jews were the main
target. They were the major property
owners and business owners in every
town. To this day families of persecuted
Jews are suing the Church for the return
of their property stolen hundreds of
years ago. Are you aware of this or do you need
links that you'll wipe from your memory as
soon as you read them.

Quote: Evenbob

In the Inquisitions the Jews were the main
target.

You know this is not true. The Inquisition had no authority over someone who was not Catholic. Please read and learn the truth. Don't persist in either your lies or ignorance.

Quote: stinkingliberal

The Church, for centuries, actively taught that the Jews had killed Jesus and should be punished. Good Catholics were taught that killing Jews was a fast track to heaven. (For that matter, the Church also advocated killing cats, which led directly to a higher incidence of the plague in Catholic countries--look it up.)

I don't really care about the existence of a few saints. The fact of the matter is that Christianity has been at least as much a force for evil as for good in the world. Catholicism emerged as a particularly intolerant and violent sect in the Middle Ages. The symbol for Christianity should be not the cross, but the sword.

I feel like I'm trying to have a rational conversation with someone who adamantly thinks I'm denying the Bowling Green Massacre. What you are saying here just didn't happen. You're blinded by some irrational hatred of Christianity. You are showing me clearly what the prejudiced mind looks like and how it behaves.

Quote: FrGamble

You know this is not true. The Inquisition had no authority over someone who was not Catholic. Please read and learn the truth. Don't persist in either your lies or ignorance.

"In 1242, the Inquisition condemned the Talmud and burned thousands of volumes. In 1288, the first mass burning of Jews on the stake took place in France.
In 1481 the Inquisition started in Spain and ultimately surpassed the medieval Inquisition, in both scope and intensity. Conversos (Secret Jews) and New Christians were targeted because of their close relations to the Jewish community, many of whom were Jews in all but their name. Fear of Jewish influence led Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand to write a petition to the Pope asking permission to start an Inquisition in Spain. In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain..
More than 13,000 Conversos (Secret Jews) were put on trial during the first 12 years of the Spanish Inquisition.."

There's plenty more if you can stomach it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-inquisition

Right away you should realize that your source is not a good one. What is this Mass burning spoken of, I have never heard of it, have you? Are there any details or historical evidence? The Inquisition did not start in Spain and the word conversos does not mean secret Jew. It means someone who has converted to Christianity. Be very careful not fall into the dark myths surrounding the Inquisition, Crusades, the Galleio trial put out there by people attacking the Church with what we would call today fake news. Look at a variety of mainline sources for your research and don't reject out of hand anything that goes against your biased and brainwashed view of history. Let's both commit to using sites and information we can agree is not biased and stick to the correct facts.