Original Sin?

Quote: rxwine

Why? The god you believe in can't do anything claimed. Pretty good evidence other than sheer non-existence.

I disagree with all my heart and soul and can tell you without a doubt that you are wrong.

Do you really think that God growing back someone's limb for you is the evidence you need to believe. If only God would do that you would believe. You know you are lying and so do I, so you can be pretty sure that it is not just some physical miracle you are searching for that will enable you to believe. What God claims to do is to bring you peace and fulfilment. To show you that your life has meaning and that you are loved and of infinite worth. That you can overcome sin, suffering, and even death. This is what you really want, what we all want, and God can and does provide it.

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I'd give you half credit for a god who doesn't do anything. That one has more credibility than yours since it would already be claimed there is no evidence to detect.

A God who doesn't do anything is not worth believing in.

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In fact the more unknowable and undetectable your god becomes the closer he comes to being a possibility (among many possibilities of unknowns)

And the closer and closer this false god would come to being irrelevant.

Quote: FrGamble

By saying that you are proclaiming a truth.

How many times have we been down
this trail. A truth is a truth is a truth.
And that's the truth. To paraphrase,
one mans truth is another mans
belly laugh.

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but all taken together clearly points to God's existence. .

For you. To me it's as clear as a muddy
river, frozen over in January. It's only
clear to you because you start out with
the premise that god is real. You do
the exact opposite of the scientific
method. If you did it the correct way,
you would end up with no god.

Quote: Nareed

What did I say that even implies such a thing?

If it's ok, in the abstract, to wish someone a quick and painless death over a lingering, painful one, why is it not ok to wish it on anyone? Did I say I hoped he dies promptly? Did I say he should die soon?

Context counts.

Okay, I think I see what was significant about dropping out the context in your last post. Good one.

Quote: FrGamble

I disagree with all my heart and soul and can tell you without a doubt that you are wrong.

Do you really think that God growing back someone's limb for you is the evidence you need to believe. If only God would do that you would believe. You know you are lying and so do I, so you can be pretty sure that it is not just some physical miracle you are searching for that will enable you to believe. What God claims to do is to bring you peace and fulfilment. To show you that your life has meaning and that you are loved and of infinite worth. That you can overcome sin, suffering, and even death. This is what you really want, what we all want, and God can and does provide it.

A God who doesn't do anything is not worth believing in.

And the closer and closer this false god would come to being irrelevant.

Posts like this are why I now consider discussions with you pointless.

You are telling him what he is supposed to believe. You are even telling him what he actually does believe, what he would believe, and what he wouldn't.

What kind of teaching is that? I can't even find the words to describe how that post makes me feel, but in a broad category "anger" covers it.

Quote: Evenbob

No, you understand like one. You create
your own reality, there in none outside
of what you create. Wrap your mind
around that, sonny. I've been studying
this for 50 years.

Thank God I understand like a child. I see the simple, unvarnished and unbiased truth just like a child does. But I speak like the man I am. After fifty years of study you still speak like a child. Sad.

Quote: Dalex64

Posts like this are why I now consider discussions with you pointless.

You are telling him what he is supposed to believe. You are even telling him what he actually does believe, what he would believe, and what he wouldn't.

What kind of teaching is that? I can't even find the words to describe how that post makes me feel, but in a broad category "anger" covers it.

I'm sorry if this upsets you, but instead of just getting angry why not just disagree. Do you think we all want something different than fulfillment and love? Do we all not want to feel our life has meaning and we are of infinite worth? Please correct me if I am wrong and don't just storm out of the room. I didn't consider it telling Bob what he believes ( by the way I would appreciate a little equal opportunity anger when Bob tells me what I believe and why I believe it, but that's not here nor there), but rather reminding him and all of us what we know. I assumed we were all on board with this. Again when you calm down please tell me where you disagree.

Quote: FrGamble

What God claims to do is to bring you peace and fulfilment. To show you that your life has meaning and that you are loved and of infinite worth. .

A good dog will do that in spades,
you don't need a god. A dog will
give your life a ton of meaning
and love you like no other creature
on earth. Your god is way over
rated & demands way too much if he's
only offering what a good dog will
give you. Good thing he doesn't
really exist except in your mind.

Quote: pew

Thank God I understand like a child. I see the simple, .

You talk a lot and say nothing, I don't
think you see anything at all except
Bible verses and what other people
tell you to say and think. I seems all
rather confusing to you, but why
wouldn't it. Like you say, you see
everything like a child does, just do
what the older people tell you.

Quote: Dalex64

Posts like this are why I now consider discussions with you pointless.

At least he is getting the nature of evidence I request.

No reason that I would alter the method just because I like or dislike something. For instance, I would love (as stated before) to discover the existence of alien UFO. (long as they don't plan to kill or enslave us).

It doesn't matter a wit to the evidence though. Doesn't make it happen to be true.

We could be talking about evidence for ESP or fairy godmothers. Doesn't matter. Religion doesn't get special consideration.

Jesus, God and some other characters did all kinds of showboating exhibitions. They won't do it now. Not my problem.

I wonder if the Bible would be convincing at all if they left out every extraordinary event. If it means so little, why do them at all then?

Don't try to convince me I shouldn't need similar evidence of extraordinary events if they happened in Bible. Never seen anyone part a river on command so people could pass. How does a guy build an Ark like that and get all those different animals on it. Something ain't right.

Okay, demonstrate something fantastic then.

And this is not even my only problem with the religion. The massive amount of fitting everything to the book, or at least whatever the current interpretation of it is.

Nobody collects evidence like that. Anything that doesn't cleanly fit gets some sort of twisted explanation why it must be right and not wrong.

Plus we have people with conflicting religions who are just as sure of themselves. The fact that any or all of them might be willing to die in the name of their religion just makes it all even more ridiculous.

Evil might be explainable, but as far I'm concerned it isn't because this conceived God is good. That's a horrible explanation. You give your children freedom of choice by a red bouncy ball or a blue one. You don't make possible for him or her to have his head filled with a deadly brain tumor, or sexually abused by someone for years. Or at least you come up with a better explanation.

If your hope is crushed by the emptiness of everything without a god, now there's a challenge for you to figure out how to make your life worthwhile, or if not, to survive it then.

You got so much time on Earth. Don't know if you get more afterwards. But make the best of it.

Quote: rxwine

Jesus, God and some other characters did all kinds of showboating exhibitions. They won't do it now.

If god was serious about getting believers, he'd
be showboating all the time still. What does he
have to lose. But all there is are urban legend
stories, no different than Paul Bunyun and
his blue ox. We're supposed to hear these
stories of water walking and raising from
the dead and be awed into falling on our
faces in worship like this is 900AD and
we're all stupid ignorant peasants being
hoodwinked by the priests.

If you haven't been brainwashed since
the age of two with all this nonsense,
it's a very hard sell anymore. Civilizations
always outgrow their religions, it's
inevitable.