Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Why would you assume God was insecure or bored?

Because you gave him every other human
emotion, why not boredom. He created
you in his image, didn't he?

Quote: FrGamble

Why would you assume God was insecure or bored? Could it not be that God wanted to share the amazing gift of life, freedom, intellect, will, and the ability to love? A God who is truly love would not keep these things only to Himself but would desire to share them with others and to create people who share in His image and likeness. This is not insecurity or boredom, but pure unadulterated grace!

Then why create pain, suffering and loss?
Oh, that's right, to punish us for Adam and Eve's eating of what was likely a fig.
But, did not Jesus absolve us from all sins by sacrificing himself?
Now that I think about it, did not Jesus actually commit assisted-suicide to fulfill some "prophecy"?

Sin is indeed painful, a source of suffering, and can lead to ultimate losses. All of these things were not created by God, but the results of our efforts to become gods ourselves.

Quote: FrGamble

The whole point of my example of Mendeleev is that God did have something to do with his discovery. If he was an atheist he would have said, "the way nature works doesn't have to make sense or form patterns, after all it is a big cosmic accident anyway."

This would mean that 1) Einstein would never have formulated relativity (or explained the photoelectric effect, or proved the existence of atoms and molecules), and 2) any day now some very faithful creationists will disprove evolution.

Quote:

As far as Edison and Hawking are concerned they are brilliant men and great scientists,

Actually Edison was a lousy scientist. But that's ok, since he was an inventor without formal science training, nor did he ever pretend to engage in science.

In fact, he made one scientific discovery in all his life. It's called the Edison Effect (look it up). Alas, ha failed to follow up on it, as it clearly did nothing to improve his light bulb. if he had, he'd have invented the vacuum tube easily.

Quote: FrGamble

Sin is indeed painful, a source of suffering, and can lead to ultimate losses. All of these things were not created by God, but the results of our efforts to become gods ourselves.

So you are admitting that God did not create everything

Therefore, if humans can creat just as God does, are we not gods as well?

If you are considering spiritual things that are really the privation of something - as things in their own right - then yes God did not create those things. Human beings can create these things as well as spiritual realities all by themselves. You have the power to create hate or love. It is in your power to destroy relationships or build them.

However, when we are talking about the morally neutral physical matter or energy then human beings are totally helpless. Only God can create these things and try as we might we can't destroy matter or energy either.

Quote: Nareed

This would mean that 1) Einstein would never have formulated relativity (or explained the photoelectric effect, or proved the existence of atoms and molecules), and 2) any day now some very faithful creationists will disprove evolution.

1) No because I was exaggerating for effect. No smart atheist really lives or believes the logical consequences of their thought. We experience too much of the daily experience of life making sense and following strict laws and patterns to really think that all around us is just random.
2) Faithful creationists are unfortunately not being faithful to the Scriptures.

Quote: FrGamble

1) No because I was exaggerating for effect. No smart atheist really lives or believes the logical consequences of their thought. We experience too much of the daily experience of life making sense and following strict laws and patterns to really think that all around us is just random.
2) Faithful creationists are unfortunately not being faithful to the Scriptures.

(1) oh really?


Also, padre, I'm going to once again bow out of this thread - while you seem like a great guy and intelligent man, I cannot watch further as you continue to slide down the rabbit hole of circular reasoning in an effort to justify your position

Quote: aceofspades

I cannot watch further as you continue to slide down the rabbit hole of circular reasoning in an effort to justify your position

It's all Christians have and they rely heavily
on it. They can't prove anything with facts,
so they use reason traps to pull everything
together. If A, B, and C are correct, then
logically D, and E have to be correct also.

You'd be surprised how many people fall
for this. Lazy people, uneducated and average
intelligence people. That's why heaven would be
the most boring place imaginable, all the
good conversationalists wouldn't be there.

An example: The Bible is the Word of God because God tells us it is... in the Bible.
Christians think this makes perfect sense.
Circular logic is a trap and very dangerous.

Quote: aceofspades

(1) oh really?

I second that.