Original Sin?

A boring conversation for you is one where real facts are mentioned and truth rather than exaggerated fictions are pursued. What you have firmly established is that you don't seem to understand literature of the ancient world.

Quote: FrGamble

A boring conversation for you.

A boring conversation for me are the
ones we have over and over, like the
one about this subject. The ones you
always seem to forget we already had
numerous times.

I don't think you really forget them, I
think you believe if you just keep pounding
on the same points over and over, ad nauseam,
the other person will eventually give up
and agree with you just to make you
stop.

Quote: Evenbob

I don't think you really forget them, I
think you believe if you just keep pounding
on the same points over and over, ad nauseam,
the other person will eventually give up
and agree with you just to make you
stop.

I see you have met my wife.

Quote: Wizard

I see you have met my wife.

It's not only women who use that ploy.
God people have always used it. They
think if they keep bludgeoning you
with their 'truth' you'll eventually give
in just to shut them up, and think they've
won.

The native Californians actually did that
with the early priests. They got so sick
of them constantly haranguing them
about sin and Jesus that they just went
along with it until the priests went
somewhere else. As soon as they were
gone, the people went back to their
old ways.

This is why the Church started schools
for the kids, they knew if they got them
young, they would be hooked. I've talked
about this before, FrG said I was nuts, I
posted links, and he he never said a word.

So, FrG, don't try it again, I'm not looking
up links again.

Bob, perhaps if you would not ignore the questions or run for the hills when you don't like the answers it wouldn't feel so much like I have to keep bringing up the same things over and over again. Here you go again, you are repeating these same exaggerations and ranting about the missions in California. Don't worry I won't bring up again the success of the missions, that they still exist today, and the real reasons why missionaries started educating children, how dare they! You keep thinking it was because no adults were listening. At least you are a living example of someone who doesn't listen and is so stuck in their ways they can't see the truth if it hits them square in the eyes.

Those missions are what started California's largest cities. I think they were carefully planned to be no more than a day's journey apart.

Quote: FrGamble

You keep thinking it was because no adults were listening. .

You think I made it up? I've been thru this
with you, I'm not posting the links again.
They went thru the same thing with the
forcibly converted Jews. As soon as
the enforcers left town, the Jews would
go right back to their own religion.
This is where the torture of the Inquisition
came in, when the enforcers came back
and it was reported to them what the
converted Jews were doing, they were
arrested and tortured and their property
seized by the Church. Lovely racket the
god people had going to enrich their
Church.

Well at least we can agree that using force to convert anyone to anything is an evil thing to do and never works. Maybe we should just leave it at that.

Your understanding of the Inquisitions are very deficient. You don't seem to know or recognize the role of the state and its abuse of power. That is why the Church was called in to protect the rights of people and to make the trials and investigations more fair. You can find this all on any credible historical site or book. This is also not to say that there were not some bigger problems that Europe needed to wrestle with such as the problems that exist when there is no separation from Church and State. This is also not to say that the Church's Inquisitions were perfect, but you better believe that if you were going to face an Inquisition you prayed that it was run by the Church and not by the government.

[edit: By the way I do not think you often make stuff up. I do think you have been brainwashed and taught some very biased and hateful things about the Church which are not true and you refuse to look at anything that might change your mind. ]

Quote: FrGamble

. Your understanding of the Inquisitions are very deficient. ]

No, your's are extremely biased in favor
of your employer, the organization that
carried out the crimes. What would you
expect them to say, of course they're
going to paint a picture far different
from reality. Like they say, prison is
full of innocent people, just ask them.
They might have killed their lover or
robbed a liquor store, but the reasons
they had for doing make it not a crime.

I will grant that there is some of that for sure in some of my answers. Even for the Church's most heinous actions I want to try to understand the historical context and why some of the leaders did what they did. In doing so you will find that the Church is always better than secular or governmental powers in their treatment of people. You will also find that the Church is an extraordinary force for good throughout history. Now you will say that doesn't excuse it for its mistakes and I will agree, but you are far more biased than me if you continue to paint such a gory and false black and white picture of the Church that someone has drilled into your head.