Gay Marriage

Quote: terapined

Its a slippery slope to allow discrimination due to religion
because
religion is in the eye of the beholder. Anybody can discriminate and claim religion.
besides
its just a cake. Its not like you are endorsing anything

I'm not making any exemptions for religion. I am saying the baker should be allowed to say I won't make any particular kind of cake for any reason. However, can't refuse to sell the same patron a more generic cake and let him finish it himself.

Quote: DRich

If a Muslim came into your shop and wanted a cake celebrating 9/11 with the planes crashed into the twin towers, body parts scattered around the cake, and pro ISIS messages on it, would you be okay making that for them?

Absolutely
Most Muslims are anti terrorist
but
If a radical came in to my bakery and ordered that cake
I would tell them YES
They leave. I call the FBI. They pick up the cake, FBI tails them :-)

Quote: Wizard

I'm not making any exemptions for religion. I am saying the baker should be allowed to say I won't make any particular kind of cake for any reason. However, can't refuse to sell the same patron a more generic cake and let him finish it himself.

I consider this business more of a decoration then food
This reminds me of the local Rabbi and his family
Very religious but he found solutions. His religion did not allow him to start the dishwasher on certain days. He called the neighbor over to push the button. Stuff like that. Maybe bakers need somebody on their staff that isn't such a snowflake that they can decorate for a gay couple.

Quote: Wizard

I'm not making any exemptions for religion. I am saying the baker should be allowed to say I won't make any particular kind of cake for any reason. However, can't refuse to sell the same patron a more generic cake and let him finish it himself.

Part of the defense is that the baker will not make Halloween cakes either.

The other argument is that this case is different than selling commodities, renting a room, serving a meal in a restaurant, etc. The creation of wedding cakes is a kind of artistry, and you can' compel an artist to make art.

IAt the time (2012) same sex marriage was illegal in Colorado. The couple was to be married in another state.

Quote: Wizard

I'm not making any exemptions for religion. I am saying the baker should be allowed to say I won't make any particular kind of cake for any reason. However, can't refuse to sell the same patron a more generic cake and let him finish it himself.

I think it was less than an optimal business strategy to refuse the business, IMO.

However, that is one of the reasons for having your own business, to work when you want to. If the court can determine who and when you will work for, that is akin to slavery.

The market would rule in this case.

Quote: Pacomartin

Part of the defense is that the baker will not make Halloween cakes either.

Good defense. I don't think they should be compelled to make Halloween cakes either.

Quote:

The other argument is that this case is different than selling commodities, renting a room, serving a meal in a restaurant, etc. The creation of wedding cakes is a kind of artistry, and you can' compel an artist to make art.

I buy that argument.

Quote:

IAt the time (2012) same sex marriage was illegal in Colorado. The couple was to be married in another state.

If I were on the supreme court, that wouldn't be relevant to me. I don't think the reasons for the objections should be pertinent. You either should be allowed to pick and choose what cakes you'll make or have to make any cake. It will be ridiculous if there is a list of excuses allowed.

Quote: Wizard

Is there any topic that doesn't quickly go off the rails

How is it off the rails, they were refusing
to bake the cake for religious reasons,
were they not? I'm right on topic.

Quote: Evenbob

How is it off the rails, they were refusing
to bake the cake for religious reasons,
were they not? I'm right on topic.

How is this part relevant to the topic at hand?

Quote: Evenbob

A satanist doesn't usually have a hidden
agenda, and the pope always has one.
Always. Plus, they're liars and the master
of the cover up, they're expert 'sweep
it under the rug' addicts...

Quote: DRich

If a Muslim came into your shop and wanted a cake celebrating 9/11 with the planes crashed into the twin towers, body parts scattered around the cake, and pro ISIS messages on it, would you be okay making that for them? I really don't know that would be different than making a cake with other messages or representations that you don't personally agree with.

No people, I am not equating gay marriage to terrorists.

That might make an interesting case.

Because now you've added in a religion while celebrating explicitly a horrible event.

Contrary to any possible confusion, you are allowed discriminate against people's cake desires as long as it's not race, religion, sexual preference, or gender.

I agree with terapined - as civil rights are specific and limited to a small set of categories. But no one knows the limit that religious requests could desire depending on the religion. If a civil right and a religious right clash, I'm giving priority to civil before religious.

The supreme Court is asking questions differentiating a plain decorated cake with no message on it, and one with a message, such as words or two male grooms.

They